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Hypoxia from facemasks

Silver writing.  Hypoxia is a diminished supply of oxygen to the body.  I’ve been trained about hypoxia – recognizing it, the dangers, contributing factors.

Hypoxia is extremely dangerous because it makes most people feel happy and overconfident.  They act as if they are drunk.  They deny that there is any problem, even as they lose the ability to perform simple tasks.

This video shows a pilot undergoing hypoxia training.  He’s in a chamber where the pressure can be lowered to simulate various altitudes.  The training simulates an explosive decompression, and while it doesn’t specify the simulated altitude, it’s above 26,000 feet.

Watch that 3+ minute video.  Notice how quickly and completely the pilot is incapacitated. Unable to perform a simple task, he has no idea that he is impaired.  He would have lost consciousness and died without assistance.

I was struck by a number of recent videos posted to the internet showing people wearing masks acting as if they were profoundly incapacitated.  A woman who can’t park her car at the gas station so that the filling port is next to the pump.  She fails several times before someone coaches her.  A man who can’t figure out how to close the hatch on his own car.  I’ve also seen multiple disturbing videos of people getting into fist fights while wearing masks.  Fist fights happen in bars, but these are in stores, on the sidewalk, in parking lots.  The people don’t look or fight like street fighters.

The comments tend to remark on the stupidity of these people, but that’s just not plausible.  These people are failing to complete normal everyday activities, and something is dreadfully wrong.

It’s not difficult to find the cause.  Despite constant MSM denials that masks cause hypoxia, it’s easy to show that they do.  I traveled by jet recently, and brought a pulse oximeter along.  It’s a small device that clips on your finger and measures the saturation level of oxygen in your blood (called O2 sat).  Healthy people have 95% to nearly 100% saturation.  Anything below 90% is considered low.  If O2 sat falls to the low 80s, vital organs can be damaged, and death is a possibility.  But just like the pilot, most people with low O2 sat due to hypoxia not only don’t notice any symptoms, but claim to feel fine and believe they are perfectly normal.

A jet airplane at cruise altitude has reduced cabin pressure, equivalent to about 8,500 feet altitude on most flights.  I measured my O2 sat with the oximeter; it had fallen from 98% at sea level to 95% at cruise altitude.  Since I live near sea level, this wasn’t surprising or alarming.

Then I put on a simple cloth mask.  Within minutes the oximeter was beeping in alarm.  My O2 sat levels had fallen below 88% and were still dropping when I took the mask off.

This man has a much better instrument, a hazardous gas monitor.  They measure oxygen in the atmosphere and detect dangerous gases like carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulfide.

Normal oxygen concentration is close to 20.5%.  OSHA regulations forbid sending workers into a space with less than 19.5% oxygen.  When I was wearing these monitors, we were trained never to enter an area with less than 19.5% oxygen with  without special training, written procedures, breathing apparatus that supplies air or oxygen, and a team outside with another equipped person to monitor.

In the video, the gas monitor reads normally when the intake tube is held at the corner of the man’s mouth.  When he puts on a mask, the oxygen level immediately falls to 17.4%.

If an employer sent employees into a space with 17.4% oxygen, they would be subject to fines and in egregious cases could face criminal charges.  Yet many states and far too many stores are coercing people into exactly those conditions.

All of the governors edicts that I’ve read contain exceptions for medical conditions.   The dictat by  WA state (PDF) is typical.  It offers an exception for

Persons with a medical condition, mental health condition, or disability that prevents wearing a face covering.  This includes, but is not limited to, persons with a medical condition for whom wearing a face covering could obstruct breathing…

The WA website with FAQs about the latest dictat:

Should I say something if someone near me isn’t wearing a face covering?

No. Someone may have a medical reason for not wearing a face covering. Whether those around you are wearing face coverings or not, focus on keeping 6 feet of distance between you and washing your hands often.

I have a reason I cannot wear a face covering. Am I required to document or prove that?

No, the order does not require that.

Hypoxia is potentially life-threatening; I don’t intend to risk it.

 

 

63 Comments

  1. Claire
    Claire July 6, 2020 11:36 am

    Thank you, Silver. Hard to believe; definitely scary.

    Another notorious case (actually many cases) in which hypoxia causes death is among climbers on Mt. Everest. Some of the most egregious deaths involve experienced climbers, including professional guides, committing acts that are entirely against their own better judgment.

    One factor is that they climb using supplemental oxygen, then when they’re either nearly to the top or even on their way down, the oxygen runs out — and so does their competence. They do stupid things like attempting to summit even when hellish storms are on the way or continuing to climb for hours beyond the time they and their partners had already agreed was the absolute latest hour in which they’d need to to turn around and go back to camp.

    And here we are, running around, impaired and not even knowing it. Good thing we’re not on a mountain or piloting a jet.

  2. free.and.true
    free.and.true July 6, 2020 12:28 pm

    Excellent info. Thanks, Silver.

  3. E. Garrett Perry
    E. Garrett Perry July 6, 2020 2:41 pm

    Horseshit. Unmitigated horseshit.

    If masks cause hypoxia, how do surgeons, gardeners, carpenters, and machinists work while wearing them? Why haven’t these issues been reported in the Czech Republic, or Taiwan, or any of the other countries where mask-wearing has become- or has been for decades- ubiquitous? Why don’t the Japanese have a sudden massive uptick in automobile crashes every flu season? Why is this apparently serious issue entirely confined to the Anglosphere?

    It’s really simple. Those people above are either:

    A: Lying through their teeth, flopping like Renaldo on Quaaludes, and rigging the tests (of course their O2 sat is dropping, they’re holding their breath), or;

    B: Intoxicated in some fashion, or;

    C: Suffering from an unrelated medical condition such as diabetes.

    Period. The End.

    If you can’t understand the difference in scale between a molecule of O2 or CO2 (incredibly tiny, not stopped by a mask), a virus particle (still tiny but an order of magnitude larger than that gas molecule, sometimes stopped by that same mask) and a virus-containing microdroplet (occasionally visible with the naked eye, mostly stopped by the mask) then you need to call up whatever fly-by-night degree mill awarded those sheepskins you brag about and demand a refund, immediate and total, in the strongest language you can muster. Your oxymeter dropped because you were, intentionally or unconsciously, holding your breath. It’s simple confirmation bias- you got the results you wanted, either by accident or intention.

    If this hypoxia issue were real, it would be incredibly observable, across all of Europe and Asia. It isn’t. If masks didn’t work, then Central Europe would have per-capita numbers like the US- likewise Taiwan, Vietnam, and South Korea. They don’t.

    Once again, compare the Czech Republic (masks) and Sweden (no masks). Or use North Carolina as your control group if you prefer

    CZ- 1170 cases and 33 fatalities per million people.
    Sweden- 7071 cases and 537 fatalities per million.
    NC- 7106 cases and 136 fatalities per million.

    CZ and Sweden have populations within .5m of each other and their first cases were a day apart. The Czech diet is -massively- unhealthy by every measure in use. NC has roughly the same population, and their first cases were reported almost a fortnight later. Yet their per-capita count of cases and fatalities is 7x higer for confirmed infections and 4-12x higher for deaths.

    Cloth masks were the standard for surgical and industrial use for nearly a century, and yet this alleged hypoxia problem has only cropped up now? Wat?

    I’ve been wearing a three-layer cloth mask in every public space for months now, only relaxing in the last two weeks. No observable effects apart from an itchy beard- and yes, I know what hypoxia feels like. Nada. No nationwide increase in automobile or industrial accidents. No friends falling sick or passing out. Annoying? Absolutely. Dangerous? Puh-leeze. This is nothing but socio-political bias and reflexive contrarianism, full stop. I swear to Christ, if somebody told you not to jump off a cliff you’d hurl yourself into the void, shouting your defiance-

    “You can’t tell me what to do, falling never killed anybody!”

    -forgetting about the sudden stop at the end, and the three people you crushed to death when you landed.

    Refund. Now.

  4. kentmcmanigal
    kentmcmanigal July 6, 2020 4:27 pm

    The above (including comments) shows why mask mandates are wrong. Let people make their own choices depending on their assessment of the risks and keep your nose out of it no matter what they decide.

    Also, if you don’t want to wear a mask, print this out: link

  5. Pat
    Pat July 6, 2020 5:55 pm

    Call it what you will, E. Garrett Perry, but I have seen a couple of cases that were called hypoxia in the hospital setting.

    One was by an assistant doctor in a long, severe burn case in the Operating Room. He recognized his problem and dropped out of surgery immediately. He was red-faced, sweating, wheezing, glassy-eyed, and staggering before he hit the door and removed his mask. Luckily the case was almost done, and the scrub nurse helped the primary doctor finish the case. I was circulating nurse at the time, and it was my first experience with hypoxia.

    It’s possible that more incidences are due to hypoxia that are diagnosed as the medical personnel being too hot, hungry, or standing too long without movement, etc.

    I remember reading recently that one representative wanted his state’s kids to be sent back to school on normal opening day wearing masks during school hours. I would object strenuously if my 10-year-old granddaughter had to sit in school all day wearing a mask. Kids are too vulnerable.

  6. Bob
    Bob July 6, 2020 8:48 pm

    Thank You, E. Garrett Perry, for exposing such a B.S. crackpot article.
    I hate wearing masks, but when I’m forced to, so-called HYPOXIA is the least of my worries.

  7. E. Garrett Perry
    E. Garrett Perry July 6, 2020 11:58 pm

    Kent-

    So people should “keep their noses out” of other people’s masking decisions? Ok- does this include businesses which choose to require a mask for entry? And if so, why does your link advocate threatening people with a dime-drop to the Feds re: ADA conpliance? Pick a principle.

    Oh, and the website’s threats and “advice” are nonsense anyway (not that the idiotic Karens and Kyles sporting those cards would know the difference). The ADA requires only “reasonable accommodation” to an actual, diagnosed, medical or psychological disability. Ben Garrison cartoons don’t count.

    This is not like motorcycle helmet laws, Kent. If I choose not to wear a helmet, I endanger only myself. A person who refuses to wear a mask has made the conscious decision to deliberately endanger everyone else. 35-55% of Covid-infected individuals are asymptomatic, but they still able to spread the virus. Winnie-the-Flu also has a lengthy presymptomatic period (average 5 days, common extreme 14 days) within which it is contagious but not yet symptomatic. Masks catch the vast majority of the droplets which are the primary vector of Covid-19, and the very few which slip past have their range of projection cut by 3/4 or better, which means they expose fewer people and contaminate less stuff. A person who goes without a mask is not harming only themselves, they’re (potentially) harming everybody else. They’ve decided, based upon laughably bad science, political tribalism, emotion, or comfort, to deliberately take the chance of infecting anyone (possibly everyone) they come into contact with. This isn’t backyard target practice, it’s firing a pistol at random in the middle of a grocery store.

  8. Claire
    Claire July 7, 2020 6:48 am

    Disagreement is fine. But rather than calling Silver’s post “horseshit” or “B.S. crackpot,” please be polite — and present the facts as you see them.

    E. Garrett Perry, in your case I’d like to know what demographic and other variables (for instance, relative amount of physical distancing, number of cases in nursing homes, etc.) you adjusted for in making your comparisons (e.g. CZ and NC).

  9. MP
    MP July 7, 2020 7:55 am

    Silver, I am curious what specific material your cloth mask was made of and whether it was multi-layer. I just did my own experiment and sat working for 1/2 hour with a mask on and a pulse oximeter on my finger. Zero change in my oxygen level or my pulse (which I assume would increase if O2 saturation were decreasing). But I don’t find this mask as awful as the cloth masks I have also had to wear, so maybe the material affects the outcome? I do not know the material of this mask. The packaging only lists it as “three-dimensional mesh filter structure” which is information-free marketing speak from my perspective.

  10. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 7, 2020 8:09 am

    My state implemented mandated masks in public places a week ago this coming Wednesday.

    I have not worn one since the mandate.

    Some observations;

    1.) Businesses as required have their signs up that state face coverings/masks are required however none have enforced the mandates for me yet

    2.) When I don’t wear one, some people notice and take theirs off

    I did have one woman ask me why I wasn’t wearing a mask, I said I had a condition, she looked puzzled so I further explained, it was mental, after she started laughing I added “FREE THOUGHT”, after thinking for a while she took hers mask off.

    For those who think government knows what is best for you, I do have a question; what are you gonna do when government mandates you bending over and you getting Bill Gate’s vaccine?

    Making mandates for sick people is about one thing but making mandates for healthy people is about another; CONTROL!!

    The Tyrants of this country have put the American people to the sheep test and many of us have passed with flying colors.

  11. E. Garrett Perry
    E. Garrett Perry July 7, 2020 8:31 am

    Your blog- your property- your rules.

    Regarding your question I’m afraid I do not have access to the information required to control for the variables you mention. In many cases it appears to not exist- NC in particular seems (as in many Trumpite areas) to be resisting the collection and dissemination of Covid-related data. I make comparisons based upon population, rates of incidence of known infections and known fatalities, length of epidemic (ie when the State or Nation reported the first confirmed case), and my observations of behavior (ie Czechs wore masks universally from mid-March to roughly a fortnight ago, while North Carolinians are widely reported and photographed to be very much not wearing masks). Much of my evidence from NC and Sweden comes from the personal observations of people whom I trust, social media of residents, and (given much less weight) media reports.

    I do know that people here aren’t being assaulted for wearing masks or denying entry to non-maskers, unlike in NC and the US generally, and we have yet to have an incidence of people spitting on produce (or people) or licking door handles in an effort to intentionally spread the virus.

  12. Silver
    Silver July 7, 2020 8:36 am

    E. Garrett Perry,
    Insults and invective are not only rude, but ineffective. They suggest a lack of facts and weak or absent logical arguments.

    As for surgeons wearing masks, it has been established for some time that surgeons experience hypoxia. Preliminary report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery Published in 2008, they monitored 53 surgeons with pulse oximeters. “Our study revealed a decrease in the oxygen saturation of arterial pulsations (SpO2) and a slight increase in pulse rates compared to preoperative values in all surgeon groups. The decrease was more prominent in the surgeons aged over 35.”

    Since hypoxic individuals are largely incapable of realizing that they are impaired, a perfectly plausible answer to the question of why workers in other fields don’t experience hypoxia is that in fact they do, but don’t realize it. Most probably experience mild impairment. For all I know many injuries with power tools might have an element of hypoxia impairment. No one realized masks were making surgeons hypoxic until someone bothered to do some basic measurements. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    I have no idea if questioning mask use is “confined to the Anglosphere.” I don’t speak or read any languages other than English well enough to do critical reading of technical papers. I don’t know if anyone has looked at seasonal automobile accident rates in any of those places. I do know that dissent and skeptical questions are not tolerated in many other societies.

    The question is not whether oxygen, CO2, and other gases can penetrate the mask. Of course they can, or people wearing masks would all die. Masks impede the normal flow of air into and out of the respiratory tract, increase moisture and CO2, and demonstrably reduce oxygen. An unsupported claim that the man with the hazardous gas monitor is lying is not evidence and completely unconvincing.

    “Your oxymeter (sic) dropped because you were, intentionally or unconsciously, holding your breath.”

    You reveal your ignorance of respiratory physiology. Normal variations in breathing patterns do not affect O2 sat readings. It takes roughly 25 seconds for blood to complete a circuit of the body. Hemoglobin has an amazing ability to bind oxygen, and then release it when there is a small drop in the partial pressure. Even while holding one’s breath, the hemoglobin are still binding oxygen in the lungs and releasing it to tissues.

    I could cause my O2 sat levels to drop by holding my breath, if I were a liar, but I am not and did not. I know from previous experimentation that I have to hold my breath for some time to see O2 sat levels fall. Long enough that the urge to take a breath becomes strong.

    I became hypoxic in minutes, not seconds after putting on a mask because I was already mildly hypoxic in a jet with a cabin altitude of 8500 feet. (I measured it). The article I cited above concludes “Since a very small decrease in saturation at this level, reflects a large decrease in PaO2, our findings may have a clinical value for the health workers and the surgeons.” PaO2 is the partial pressure of oxygen. The relationship between O2 saturation and PaO2 is highly non-linear; just a few points drop in O2 sat results in a large drop in PaO2. My O2 sat had already dropped from 98% to 95%, the oxygen levels in my tissues were already lower than normal. The barrier and rebreathing from putting on a mask caused the additional drop.

    My argument was not about populations response to the epidemic, but the evidence that mask use causes hypoxia in at least some individuals. It’s fairly safe to guess that none of us here is qualified to do our own statistical analyses of disparate populations to arrive at solid, defensible conclusions. I’m certainly not, and simplistic comparisons add nothing to the discussion.

    “Cloth masks were the standard for surgical and industrial use for nearly a century, and yet this alleged hypoxia problem has only cropped up now? Wat?”

    The essence of science is criticizing dogma and accepted facts. As I demonstrated above, the hypoxia risk has been known for at least 12 years. The use of masks went largely unquestioned for nearly 100 years.

    Covering the nose and mouth for infection control started in the early 1900s when it was discovered that exhaled droplets could transmit tuberculosis. Masks have been emblematic of medicine in the past century, but there was little evidence to support their effectivenss. Unmasking the Surgical Mask: Does It Really Work? Studies cited in that article focus primarily on the effectiveness of masks at preventing disease, and don’t consider the risks of hypoxia.

    The science regarding the aerosol transmission of infectious diseases has, for years, been based on what is now appreciated to be “very outmoded research and an overly simplistic interpretation of the data.” Modern studies examine the size and distribution of potentially infectious aerosol particles. Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola.

    The modern studies reveal a much more complex picture and reveal many limitations of face masks. The overly simplistic historical understanding of droplet and airborne transmission drives what can best be described as a tradition of mask wearing. A thorough search will reveal little in the way of compelling evidence of mask effectiveness. They have certainly never been subjected to the level of scrutiny required of new drugs, medical devices, and procedures.

    We now know that aerosols transmitted from the respiratory tract due to coughing, sneezing, talking, and normal exhalation produce particles that range from less than 5 microns to over 100 microns. While masks may stop some of the larger “droplets,” careful observation shows that they evaporate, producing a concentration of readily inhalable small particles – which few masks will stop.

    The argument that those who choose not to wear masks are placing others in danger goes both ways. The study I cited in my blog post Why I don’t wear a mask was a large, randomized, controlled clinical trial. They found that those who wore cloth masks were 7 to 13 times likely to become infected. That is a huge increase and not easily dismissed. Demanding that others subject themselves to a huge increase in the risk of infection to because of one’s own fear is unethical and smacks of cowardice.

    It’s a very sad state of affairs when a reader of the Living Freedom blog is so terrified that they equate a free man going quietly about his peaceful business to shooting into a crowd.

    This bit of advice isn’t scientific, but it is wise.

    It’s not safe out here.

  13. Eck!
    Eck! July 7, 2020 8:37 am

    I call conspiracy theory.

    If a mask is not allowing exchange of gasses maybe the mask is either
    poorly designed or made with materials that should not be used.

    At low altitudes (under a few thousand feet) its rarely an issue. The issue
    is not O2 as we only absorb maybe 20% of our intake, its the partial
    pressure [effective altitude] and CO2 level.

    So the other day I was out and doing things that meant a mask for hours.
    Brought the pulse oximeter along to test and maybe [uncontrolled] 1%
    difference. That showed up while sedentary and near falling asleep
    waiting. I’ve seen that in others when inactive and near drowsing. If you
    were at altitude the effect is greater, it also disappears if you sit up and
    breath deeply a few times. I personally have done the altitude chamber
    and its a enlightening experience. I do things like that for curiosity and
    as a pilot.

    Closed entry is also concerned with CO2 and other non life supporting
    gasses and usually the indicator is low O2. Even if O2 is 21% CO2 of
    7%will degrade efficiency and 15% can be life threatening. The problem
    is wastes (our CO2) and hazardous gasses. Two solutions are air
    circulation to remove wastes or SCBA (self contained breathing apparatus).

    For example If I put an tube in a captive bottle that only gets exhaled air
    The results of testing that air will be scary. The O2 Level will be low and
    CO2 high. However a mask is far from an airtight bottle and recirculation
    is very limited unless you pulled a balloon (or other non permeable material)
    over your face (not recommended).

    People generally elderly with poor mobility and low activity will suffer that
    more watching TV.

    Its a particle mask, not gas mask and the difference is critical.
    That and a few I’ve sampled were hard to blow air though never mind breathe in.
    That’s what happens when you buy unknown masks [china] and made by hobbyists.

    In the end maks work to reduce transmission. That doesn’t mean all masks are
    created equal. Also all report with out testing and validation are suspect.

    So the real question is; Was the report issued to scare people from using masks?

    Due to the level of hearsay and lack of scientific detail, likely more opinion
    that facts supported by data. I call bunk and its a conspiracy theory.

    Eck!

  14. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 7, 2020 8:51 am

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Ben Franklin

  15. Silver
    Silver July 7, 2020 9:28 am

    MP,
    My mask was made of two layers of ordinary cloth by a relative. I see many that resemble it.

    Remember that I did my little test in a jet cabin at 8500 feet cabin altitude. That means I was already mildly hypoxic. Because of the very non-linear relationship between O2 sat and oxygen in tissues, doing the test where I did made it much more sensitive to changes. I didn’t expect it to fall to 88% – which I consider a dangerous level.

    Doing the test at sea level would produce a smaller change in O2 sat.

    Everyone’s susceptibility and response to hypoxia is different. That’s one of the many reasons pilots are trained in hypoxia – so they can learn the altitude where it begins for them, and their own personal “tells” that they can use to recognize the deadly peril.

    I don’t know where the impaired people in the videos were – at sea level or in Leadville, CO. Their behavior was certainly suggestive of hypoxia. They weren’t stumbling as drunks do. They might be smokers, or have COPD, asthma, emphysema, pulmonary fibrosis, or some other compounding factor. But their behavior was alarming and suggested significant impairment.

    Hypoxia is just one of the many dangers of wearing masks. I wrote about hypoxia because of my training and experience in that subject.

    Blanket edicts for masking ignore the very real hazards to those with such lung diseases, lung cancer, or people who have had surgery to remove part of all of a lung. I see no organized effort to alert those people to the dangers they face. Fear, hysteria, name calling, and intense social and government pressure to wear masks is nearly certain to harm many people, quite possibly more people than it helps.

  16. kentmcmanigal
    kentmcmanigal July 7, 2020 6:33 pm

    why does your link advocate threatening people with a dime-drop to the Feds
    “My” link was only to show the form someone could print out if they really didn’t want to wear a mask. I have nothing to do with the rest of it nor do I advocate sending government after anyone. It is just for people who don’t want to wear a mask– that’s all.

    I wear one, by the way.

    I’m not for intentionally infecting anyone… but you’re always exposing each other to something. Please stop over-reacting to this virus.

    If you are so scared of the virus, stay home.

    Politics makes people stupid.

    (Oh, and my dad, who is 79, overweight, and not in the best health, was diagnosed with Covid-19 today. So don’t pretend I “don’t care” because it can’t affect me.)

  17. Myself
    Myself July 7, 2020 7:14 pm

    Yes, someone may infect you with COVID-19, or plague, or Infectious diarrhea, you may get rabies from an animal bite, or lock jaw from stepping on a rusty nail, your neighbor my start a fire that burns you alive.

    Or you may be the cause of any of those things

    Life is dangerous, and you’re not getting out of it alive, and there ain’t no paradise waiting for you

    Does wearing a mask cause hypoxia? I don’t know, if so then the people in Japan are done for, as are painters, ag-workers and a lot of others.

    Does wearing a mask stop you from infecting others from a (sometimes) fatal illness? probably, but that’s still your choice, their choice is to avoid you if you don’t mask up. Of course any business can require you to wear a mask to enter, just like they can require a shirt and shoes, or a tie for that matter, and if you enter said business then mask up, or go somewhere else.

    As the Late Great Mamma Liberty used to write, “having freed0m means putting up with other people’s freedom”

    To that I would just add, having freedom means taking responsibility for yourself and your actions, and you may be wrong, you cause your own death, and that’s on you, and you may cause the death of another, and that’s also on you, just accept the consequences of your actions.

  18. Myself
    Myself July 7, 2020 7:22 pm

    Now excuse me while I enjoy a single malt and a cigar

  19. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 8, 2020 7:50 am

    I’s enjoyed that but me be drinking some Black rifle coffee, Black on Black but that zigar & single malt will be in my future today, don’t ya know.

  20. TK421a
    TK421a July 9, 2020 11:29 am

    Here’s another example of why America, with 3% of the world’s population, has approximately 25% of the COVID-19 deaths and an infection rate that’s gone through the roof. Is it any wonder that a majority of countries consider America to be a COVID-19 pariah?

    Shame on you Claire, for publishing crap like this. It’s another example of the tinfoil hat BS you revel in. But this time you have blood on your hands because some people who read this crap will believe it and stop protecting themselves and others.

    Do yourself a favour and stick to postings about your house remodelling, at least those posts will not convince people to do stupid things.

  21. Claire
    Claire July 9, 2020 2:14 pm

    Three times now, readers have responded to Silver’s post not with disagreement, but with hostility. That says nothing about the effectiveness or safety of masks, but a whole lot about the emotional state we’ve so easily been driven to by fear.

    A couple of people have offered evidence counter to Silver’s about masks and hypoxia, and Silver has acknowledged that masks affect different people in different ways under different circumstances. All to the good. That’s the kind of discussion we need.

    But not one of the people who accuse Silver or me of having blood on our hands or shooting bullets into crowds or even the lesser misdeeds of being purveyors of bullshit, horseshit, or tinfoil hat crackpottery has presented scientific evidence that symptomless people wearing masks makes the difference between transmitting, or not transmitting, COVID-19. In fact, the science on that question remains as uncertain as it was at the beginning of the pandemic.

    If you have sound scientific evidence, present it. Please. If you have a rational argument to make, even if it’s based on anecdotal evidence, fine. Lay it out, as some already have. If you don’t have one or the other, all the name-calling and insult-slinging in the world won’t prove your point.

    As to Silver’s words or my providing a forum for them being dangerous … aren’t freedom lovers supposed to be the people who believe that a marketplace of ideas is healthy? That people can read and evaluate both opinions and data for themselves? That opponents can answer data with data, reason with reason, and thus better arrive at truth?

    Don’t we also believe that people are free to read, then act according to their own understanding?

    Dangerous ideas? Blood on our hands? That implies that readers of this blog are just bobble-head dolls who absorb whatever information is in front of them then go out and act on it, uncritically. I shouldn’t have to state this, but people are perfectly free to read Silver’s words, agree, disagree, research for themselves, and make their own decisions. We’re even free to agree with Silver, then wear masks anyhow (as I have noted that I DO). You can be “agnostic” about masks and still wear them (as Kent McManigal says he does).

    We’re not snowflakes around here. We shouldn’t be taking our cues from cancel culture, where controversial speech is considered “violence.”

    Evidence will go a long way to proving a valid point. Hostility and insults are the resort of people who can’t make a solid case for their position.

  22. Claire
    Claire July 9, 2020 2:32 pm

    Also, some questions for you, TK421a:

    Do you believe that India and China (the two countries in the world more populous than the U.S.) and Russia and Brazil are accurately reporting their COVID-19 data?

    Do you believe that COVID-19 death reports in the U.S. are always correct and that there has been no over-reporting (e.g. Influenza deaths reported as COVID; patients dying WITH COVID, but actually of other causes)?

    Do you believe that people should be forced by the government to wear masks, rather than using their own (hopefully informed) judgment?

    I’ve stated before and I’ll state again (though I wish I didn’t have to) that I consider COVID-19 to be a very serious disease, particularly for certain vulnerable classes of people (which happen to include me).

    I simply believe there’s a lot of contradictory evidence and a lot of highly destructive overreaction — and that people should be MOST skeptical during any moment that governments and their media propaganda arms are most determined to drive skepticism out and replace it with whatever emotion they’d prefer people to feel.

  23. Myself
    Myself July 9, 2020 3:42 pm

    If I may elaborate on Claire’s post just a bit, at no point did Silver state you shouldn’t wear a mask, he simply offered an opinion on possible risk of wearing one, clearly wearing a mask will cut down on you spreading pathogens, (this is why an O/R staff wear them) but like everything in life it is a trade off, and Silver simply added some insight into the mix.

    Yes you may make someone else sick, even cause their death by not wearing a mask, and not just because of COVID-19, spreading influenza or even a common cold could be fatal to a vulnerable person, for that matter just making dinner for someone could kill them.

    The questions aren’t “how fatal is COVID?” or “do mask help stop the spread of COVID?”

    The question is, who is responsible for your life? you, or someone else?

    If you think a mask is good idea, then wear one, if you think it’s unsafe to around people who aren’t masks, then don’t go around people who aren’t wearing masks, not always easy of course, and sometimes this can lead you to some hard choices, but no one ever said freedom would be easy.

  24. Myself
    Myself July 9, 2020 3:51 pm

    Want to add DR. Myself’s totally accurate ‘COVID-19 test and foolproof (well foolproof until they get better fools) solution.

    They say a symptom of COVID-19 is loss of taste and smell…

    So pour yourself a Whiskey, smell it, inhale deeply, can you smell it? Now sip it, can you taste it, if so you don’t have COVID-19, so have a drink to celebrate your good health, if the answer was no, have several drinks, you’ll pass out and not infect anyone.

  25. WolfSong
    WolfSong July 9, 2020 8:07 pm

    I must say, I like your whiskey test, Myself.
    Sounds like a darn fine plan to me…especially since I have a bottle of coffee whiskey sitting on my counter that begs to be drank. 😉

  26. Silver
    Silver July 10, 2020 3:03 am

    I was offline yesterday and missed the recent comments. I’m grateful to Claire, Myself, and others here who are willing to have a discussion and defend my right to post facts and opinions that apparently frighten some people.

    I’m happy to discuss and debate this issue, but TK421a’s comment has literally nothing of substance that I can respond to. A non-sequitur filled with evidence-free allegations is followed by insults to Claire.

    Claire has repeatedly requested that those who disagree present scientific evidence. TK’s deliberately offensive comment offers no evidence at all, scientific or otherwise.

    It’s pathetic and rude. What kind of boor insults a gracious hostess because he doesn’t like what one of her guests has said?

    I wrote this post, not Claire. Any errors are mine. Anyone who lacks arguments or evidence and must resort to insults should insult me, not Claire.

    This is Claire’s blog and I am very grateful that she allows me to post here. Claire is far more gentle and gracious than I am. If it were my blog, I would delete the comment and ban the author. Offering baseless insults to a gentle woman who has contributed so much to the cause of freedom is inexcusable.

  27. Silver
    Silver July 10, 2020 3:48 am

    Jeff Neff, a firefighter who is running for the PA state Senate, was skeptical about a video showing reduced oxygen behind masks. He brought home a hazardous gas analyzer, and repeated the experiment.

    Firefighter urges you to breathe and think at the same time

    This video is longer than the ones in the original post. He tests 4 different kinds of masks. All cause the O2 levels at his mouth to fall well below the 19.5% limit mandated by OHSA.

    This is how science is done: by skeptical observers, who attempt to repeat the results of experiments done by others. It doesn’t require degrees or government grants, but an open, inquiring mind and a willingness to be proved wrong.

    Masking should be a personal choice. All choices come with risks and rewards. The risks of hypoxia concern me much more than the claimed benefits of wearing masks – benefits that have not withstood any scrutiny for well over a decade.

    This is a pretty good summary, written in 2016:
    Why Face Masks Don’t Work: A Revealing Review
    It’s about dentists and dental workers use of face masks. It mentions SARS, MERS, and Ebola but the intended audience is the dental profession. It’s pretty well written and contains many references.

    My post documented the risks of hypoxia from wearing masks. This review article addresses what should be the other side of the question: are masks effective? It was written before the politicization and propaganda surrounding that question today.

    Masks were developed over 100 years ago. They were based on an assumption. That assumption was not carefully tested. People began asking hard questions about masks at least 11 years ago. Testing those assumptions has shown them to be largely false.

    Wear a mask, or not, if it makes you feel better. Just be aware that there is evidence that they can harm you, and evidence that they offer little real protection.

  28. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 10, 2020 9:06 am

    It is great when one side in a discussion accuses the other side who do not have exactly the same opinion as “having blood on their hands”, if you don’t agree with me, what a cop out!! This is what tyrants do oh so well, obey, believe as I say or you are guilty of “having blood on your hands”, a total guilt trip by the shameless IMHO.

    Funny how the truth is very plain to be seen for those without completely closed minds;

    ” W.H. Kellogg, M.D., infectious diseases expert and then-executive officer of the California State Board of Health, made this rueful, brutally honest 1920 observation on the failure of masking to contain rampant influenza spread during the devastating 1918 influenza pandemic:

    The masks, contrary to expectation, were worn cheerfully and universally, and also, contrary to expectation of what should follow under such circumstances, no effect on the epidemic curve was to be seen. Something was plainly wrong with our hypotheses.

    A century later, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose – the more things change, the more they stay the same……

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/maskerade-covid-1984-evidence-free-compulsory-masking/

  29. firstdouglas
    firstdouglas July 10, 2020 10:56 am

    Such an unpleasant surprise to find rude, substanceless nastiness in comments on this site, where I just do not remember such. But your reasoned, so-temperate response may have been the best reply, Claire, though my inclination would have been immediate delete, I suspect.

  30. Claire
    Claire July 10, 2020 11:14 am

    Thank you, firstdouglas, Comrade X, Silver, and Myself. Your support means a lot to me.

    Thank you to everybody who remains reasonable and principled in weird days like these.

    I’m putting TK421a on moderation. I’ll be reviewing his future comments (if any) before letting them through.

    That one went through automatically because TK421a was (under a different nym) once a very charming, kind, interesting and long-time blog Commentariat member. And I didn’t delete it or ban him because he deserves a chance to explain himself, if he chooses to. I hope he does; not holding my breath, though.

  31. Pat
    Pat July 10, 2020 11:48 am

    I find it sad — not to mention distracting — that this pandemic should have come down to masks.

    Americans have enough problems without this ongoing argument and devisiveness. Libertarians (of whatever sort) should not allow themselves to be pulled apart like this — though probably the politicians and PTB are more than happy to have the country focus on masks rather than their ineptitude.

    From Day One, they have acted like a bunch of chimps under attack, politicians and “experts” alike running off in all directions, each one fearfully trying to pull the threat away from (in this case) reality.

    Where is the cure? Where is the vaccine (not that I would take it)? Whose money will pay for the “privilege” of telling us what is best for us?

    And how much longer are we supposed to endure this nonsense before some semblance of rational order and unity rears its head among our so-called leaders? THAT is the real issue if America is ever going to breathe normally again — which I doubt.

  32. Just Waiting
    Just Waiting July 10, 2020 7:28 pm

    After 180 or so years of politics and religion being the only taboo topics for polite company to discuss, in just the last couple of months we now have to add racism and masks to the list.

    As a people, we’re being forced to face a trifecta of highly divisive issues at a time when compromise, understanding and civility have reached their absolute lowest points. I’ve been watching the quality of human interaction and discussion deteriorate rapidly with great disgust and sadness. People who I/we have always presumed reasonable and well spoken have become irrational in the absolutism of “their side”. Their game is all or nothing, the hopes for finding common ground in the world seem obliterated. Which makes it specially troubling to see that same absolutist venom and vitriol expressed here in Claire’s house, and at Claire herself. Oh that Mama Liberty was still with us, she had a certain way of putting people in their proper place when they crossed the line.

    I got to spend another morning with X exercising my rights and living my freedom, so to come home and see this, well, the irony of having to moderate certain peoples’ comments at a place called Living Freedom is not lost on me. I would hope you publish the replies unedited, let us see for ourselves the crap that’s being spread.

    Do I wear a mask in stores and public places? Yes, but enter them far less often because of it. Should everyone? Maybe, but the information changes so quickly its hard to tell. 2 months ago everyone was scrambling for respirators. Last month we heard respirators are killing people. Should masks be mandated? Hell no. I think one of the biggest reasons for non compliance is just pure opposition to being told what to do.

    Back when the state of emergencies over covid were issued, a local mayor started coming on social media every night and just freeform talking to anyone watching. I think more local people were watching every night than the viewership of Faux and msm combined. He’s a young guy with a young family, local small business owner, just taking time to talk to the people. Then the killing happened and the protests started. A handful of locals turned out to protest the conditions far far away from here. Then we had a a paid professional provacateur show up and attendance and ugliness grew. She started making some wild, vile, baseless allegations against some well respected people, including the mayor. He supported the citizens’ right to protest, but remained neutral on the cause. This outraged her, which she spread to the few followers she had gathered. It got so bad, the mayor left the air out of concerns for his family. And the people lost our sole daily connection to tptb.

    I read yesterday that Michael Krieger just hung it up, and Ol Remus has been silent for too long. I guess I could have been briefer, but I hope you don’t fall to the same trolling and outside influence that’s taking away our voice. Whether you’re writing about the house, life events, or hypoxia, there’s still a bunch of us who look forward to reading it, and hope you will keep going. Thanks Claire!

  33. larryarnold
    larryarnold July 11, 2020 8:47 am

    What hurts my soul is how grim progressives have become. Imagine spending days pouring through tweets looking for people to hate. How dead is that?

    These people have bitter souls, and their vitriol will harm them more than they harm others.

  34. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 15, 2020 4:30 pm

    Ben better wash his hands;

  35. Dorvann Malachi
    Dorvann Malachi July 15, 2020 5:13 pm

    The question I have is does wearing a tie around your neck cause hypoxia by cutting off blood flow to the brain because that would help to explain how clueless the majority of politicians in this country seem.

  36. Black Ort
    Black Ort July 17, 2020 3:49 pm

    Setting myself up for the abuse here, but I feel very strongly on this topic.

    My wife of 8 years just died in the hospital. She was there before the outbreak, as a result of her underlying conditions had a severely compromised immune system.
    She was repeatedly tested in before various minor surgical procedures, and was Covid-free for months.
    She lived less than 30 hours after testing positive from an infection she caught IN the hospital.
    Presumably from an asymptomatic health provider.

    The hospitals here in California are brimming over again with fresh cases sparked by the easing of restrictions, just like FL and TX. I go out masked. I go out as little as possible, not just because I have multiple risk factors but because:

    The first person that gets in my face not wearing a mask and refuses to back up and go away is getting a face full of pepper spray. I don’t care about them but I really do not want to go jail where the infection rates have soared.

    I really do not care if wearing a mask compromises your O2 saturation, at least you are alive and breathing to have one. My Grandparents did not survive the Nazi death camps so you can whine about wearing a mask in Costco.

    All of you collectively refusing to mask in public, refusing to social distance, going to protests and the beaches to mingle in large groups killed my wife. I have no tolerance and no forgiveness for you.

    It took me 30 minutes of editing to get the expletives out of this message. I challenge you to reply civilly.

  37. Kittlen
    Kittlen July 17, 2020 6:16 pm

    I have asthma and an 02 sats monitor. Even thought my sats can and do go down wearing a mask, I will wear it. My freedom to breathe without having to use a ventilator means that I wear a mask for my protection. More importantly, I use it for your protection.

    There have been stupid Americans jumping the border in to Canada with the lie of “going to Alaska.” Instead of going to Alaska, they have been doing the tourist thing, and everywhere they’ve gone, new little pockets of covid infections have been sprouting up. That was my second exposure. My first one, I couldn’t even get tested to find out if I had been exposed, and my doctor refused to allow me to go back to work as a delivery driver in order to prevent more exposure and passing it on.

    I lost my sense of smell back in March from that first exposure. I lost my sense of taste. I’ve had other symptoms that “might have been” covid infections. I may even have developed a heart condition or made one worse.

    Less than 3 weeks ago, I had to have a covid test because now they are finally able to test everyone here. Trust me, having a foot long q-tip stuck up your nose to tickle the underside of your brain is NOT FUN. Your eyes water. You sneeze. You whimper. You can’t see for a good 20 minutes, and then, until the test comes back negative (with a 30% false negative too!) you are stuck in isolation. Not just at home, but in one room at most for days until it comes back.

    I’ll wear my mask. I have a bunch so far, and I plan on getting and making more. These masks aren’t going to go away, so we might as well have fun with them.

    There’s no freedom to loose here by masking up. I think what you’re looking at is whether you want to be a mass murderer by being patient 0 or not. I would hope you have some basic human kindness in you. Masking up isn’t a loss of freedom. Not masking is a mark of selfishness and visible psychopathy.

    I’m going to keep masked up, especially if I visit the states to see my American relatives. Masks are here to stay.

  38. Just Waiting
    Just Waiting July 17, 2020 6:33 pm

    Black Ort, sorry for your loss.

  39. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 17, 2020 7:06 pm

    Black Ort you have a right to your opinion and I support that.

    If you decide to attack other people because they don’t do what you want them to, wish you luck with that, you might needs some if you pick the wrong person.

  40. Larry Arnold
    Larry Arnold July 17, 2020 10:08 pm

    Losing my wife would devastate me as well. I’m sorry yours died.

    However, in Texas, verbal provocation alone (getting in someone’s face) is not justification for use of force. Pepper spray is fairly high on the “use of force” scale. Here, you’d go to jail for pepper-spraying someone unless they were physically attacking you.

    You know California better than I do, since I left in 1960. Also, it depends somewhat on where in California you live. But from what I read, self-defense laws there impose more limitations than the ones in Texas do.

    If you want to stay out of jail or prison, backing away is a better alternative than spraying someone.

  41. Bob
    Bob July 18, 2020 3:03 pm

    I have yet to see any proof offered that masks are effective at preventing transmission of the virus. Seems that it is merely assumed that ‘you gotta wear a mask.’

    Where is the beef?

  42. Roberta XRoberta X
    Roberta XRoberta X July 20, 2020 9:37 am

    A number of commenters have addressed the science side of this, with vary degrees of heat and light.

    I’m going to do my best to relentlessly edit out any “heat” about viral transmission and politics, but I’m going to be unsparing otherwise: I will not be “nice.”

    The problem with Silver’s airplane experiment is that the design and execution of it is inadequate. The material under test is not well-defined (calling the mask “ordinary cloth” tells us nothing of the material, its porosity or how well the mask fits), the sole experimental subject is the experimenter themselves (a big no-no), who is aware of the exact nature of the experiment (another big no-no, given that we have voluntary override of our respiration rate). There is no control subject — another person, under identical circumstances and measurements, but unmasked. We know nothing about the accuracy of the (single!) measurement device. And we have only one (1) data set from only one (1) subject, who is almost certainly not an ideal average human being (because nobody is).

    The lack of data about the mask and actual cabin atmospheric conditions (overall pressure, O2 and CO2 levels, etc.) means the experiment cannot reliably be repeated by another worker with similar skills.

    As a tool to inform Silver about how Silver should behave with regard to masks when at altitude or when the atmospheric composition is significantly non-ideal, it has some utility — but the main utility is that Silver has a wearable blood-oxygenation monitor, and should wear it when also wearing a mask, retreating to an area where the mask may be removed without risk of endangering anyone when the monitor indicates imminent trouble. It’s not much different to a dive computer.


    On the YouTube videos: the behaviors are sufficiently uncommon that they rated sharing on a popular platform; therefore, such reactions are not widespread. Mental confusion is also a symptom of hyperventilating, which is a known reaction some people have to wearing a filter mask or greater restriction. (Remembering to breathe naturally was a notable part of the learning when I was trained in using a full-face air-purifying respirator.) Confusion and clumsiness is also a symptom of dehydration, and of any number of other medical issues unrelated to wearing a filter mask. There’s not enough data to know the cause(s) in the video.


    The “orbital-level view” of the pandemic and responses worldwide indicates that regions where most people have taken to wearing masks and maintaining physical distance whenever possible appear to have lower rates of infection, and that those regions do have lower per-capita hospitalizations and deaths.


    I can’t tell you anything about rules and laws regarding mask-wearing and suchlike. Americans are cross-grained people, who react poorly to government mandates for things like seat belts and motorcycle helmets. How we each behave is an individual choice. The spread of disease, however, is a mass phenomenon. The virus doesn’t know or care that you are standing up to big government. I cannot tell you if this is a hill worth your dying on; I can’t even tell you if this is a hill worth risking the health and lives of any susceptible strangers, friends and family members with whom you come into contact. You will be deciding that for them, and that notion is not a comfortable one no matter what you decide.


    We have so much data about the spread and results of this thing from so many disparate nations and places that we can draw some reliable general conclusions — but I urge everyone to get as much well-sourced data as they can to help them decide, instead of looking to the empty calories of slick YouTube videos and social media memes, or TV pablum.

  43. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 20, 2020 6:44 pm

    “Over the last four months, Americans have lived through what is arguably the most consequential period of government malfeasance in U.S. history. Public officials’ overreaction to the novel coronavirus put American cities into a coma; those same officials’ passivity in the face of widespread rioting threatens to deliver the coup de grâce. Together, these back-to-back governmental failures will transform the American polity and cripple urban life for decades………

    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/four-months-unprecedented-government-malfeasance/

    IMHO malfeasance is a good word to sum it up with when you look at the complete picture.

    And truther words I have not found;

    …..But civilization is everywhere and at all times vulnerable to the darkest human impulses. Government exists to rein in those impulses so that individual initiative can flourish. America’s Founders, schooled in a profound philosophical and literary tradition dating back to classical antiquity, understood the fragility of civil peace and the danger of the lustful, vengeful mob.

    Our present leaders, the products of a politicized and failing education system, seem to know nothing of those truths. Pulling the country back from the abyss will require a recalling of our civilizational inheritance.”

  44. Antibubba
    Antibubba July 20, 2020 9:02 pm

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Ben Franklin

    I still haven’t received an explanation as to how reducing the spread of disease is a step towards tyranny.

  45. Comrade X
    Comrade X July 21, 2020 8:48 am

    A spread of a disease is all about the numbers, right?

    If there is one thing, just one thing that tyranny is about it is control and how better to have control then to convince people with false information for their safety they must give up their liberty.

    “What a wonderful newfound power! Why, there are many ways to save lives. Each could require its own new crime. What a glorious future we are entering.

    Anyway, that’s where we are now. The question before us is: (1) When, if ever, will the panic finally end, and (2) given the panic extends at least into the new future, what new forms will it take?”

    https://wmbriggs.com/post/31754/

  46. Silver
    Silver July 21, 2020 9:04 am

    Thank you RobertaX for the thoughtful comments.

    You are correct that my “experiment” leaves much to be desired, and your criticisms are valid. That doesn’t invalidate my conclusion, nor did you claim that it did.

    The larger point, the one that gets to the scientific method, is that MSM and government propaganda flatly deny that any mask causes hypoxia (or any other significant problem.) I’ve disproved that – in at least one environment I have demonstrated a reasonable basis for concern about hypoxia from wearing masks.

    The two videos I linked showing that hazardous gas monitors measure dangerously low levels of oxygen behind a mask are not so easily dismissed. Those are sophisticated, rugged instruments that workers literally trust with their life every day. It would be a violation of federal regulations to order someone to work in the atmosphere measured behind those masks, but that is exactly what employers of store clerks and flight attendants are mandating for their employees.

    My primary point of disagreement is this:

    “I can’t even tell you if this is a hill worth risking the health and lives of any susceptible strangers, friends and family members with whom you come into contact. You will be deciding that for them, and that notion is not a comfortable one no matter what you decide.”

    That’s assuming the conclusion and a non-sequitur to my reasoning. My post was intentionally limited to the question of hypoxia and not effectiveness of masks.

    Masks have been assumed to be effective in preventing the spread of infection in the 100+ years since that untested assumption was first advanced. Since at least 2009, careful investigations have cast considerable doubt on the truth of that assumption.

    The burden of proof lies on those who demand that others alter their behavior, their very breath of life, on the doubtful claim that a simplistic, reused filter worn by untrained people will make a material difference in the spread of a highly contagious respiratory virus. It is a significant burden and there has not been a good faith effort to address it. Authoritarianism, guilt, and fear have been used instead – quite effectively.

    There are strong feelings here and precious little useful discussion. I thank you again for your thoughtful comments.

  47. Larry Arnold
    Larry Arnold July 21, 2020 4:49 pm

    Dr. Richard Bartlett Joins me to talk COVID CURES

    “Local doctor (Midland, Texas) believes he has a ‘silver bullet’ for Covid.”

    Any thoughts, Silver?

    To me it seems like he’s treating the symptoms until the patient gets well.

  48. Bob
    Bob July 21, 2020 10:18 pm

    Why not just treat the mask thing like a peanut allergy? Some folks have problems with peanut products, most don’t.

    While we’re all having fun debating the pros and cons of masks, I’d still like to see some info. regarding the overall death rate in this country (or all states) during this same period last year. Irrelevant, you say? Probably not, as it would give us some perspective on how devastating this virus really is.

    Whatever happened to the common flu? Doesn’t anyone get sick from it anymore, or is everyone these days a victim of the dreaded Covid-19?

  49. Claire
    Claire July 26, 2020 9:12 pm

    My wife of 8 years just died in the hospital. She was there before the outbreak, as a result of her underlying conditions had a severely compromised immune system.
    She was repeatedly tested in before various minor surgical procedures, and was Covid-free for months.
    She lived less than 30 hours after testing positive from an infection she caught IN the hospital.
    Presumably from an asymptomatic health provider.

    I am very sorry your wife died, Black Ort.

    However, by your description she caught COVID in the most overwhelmingly masked environment in the world, a hospital. Sadly, that’s not very good evidence in support of masks.

    Also, Silver’s post was NOT advocating “refusing to mask in public, refusing to social distance, going to protests and the beaches to mingle in large groups.” It simply presented evidence about one aspect of mask wearing — evidence that several others have reasonably questioned.

    Your loss must be beyond painful. But neither Silver nor anybody else here caused your wife’s death.

  50. Black Ort
    Black Ort July 26, 2020 10:04 pm

    Thank you for your calm and reasoned reply Claire. No one can claim the hospitals and staff are not overwhelmed in the infected and dying. Nothing is perfect as shown by the number of health care workers that have been infected. But they are literally soaking in the infection daily and the relatively low rate of their infections and of cases like my wife’s show the precautions do work.

    The infection rate here was dropping until people started going inside and to the beaches unmasked and now California is the #1 State for this. Masks slow transmission and should be the new normal, period.

  51. J. Wisehart
    J. Wisehart August 7, 2020 4:13 am

    Covid19 is as deadly as a unicorn’s fart. it’s the common cold.

    Masking up is one sure way of looking like a dick, but it won’t do you any good whatsoever, nope, the longer you wear the more years you take off your own life. Do not wear the slavery masks if you care for your health, sanity and your family. Hypoxia is real, don’t risk it.

  52. Claire
    Claire August 7, 2020 4:56 am

    I’m closing comments on this post. Obvious reasons.

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