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“If I can’t buy groceries, nobody’s gonna buy groceries”: A New Year’s think piece

Well, 2021 hadn’t even died its well-deserved death before the CDC basically created a whole new class of the unvaxxed insufficiently vaxxed.

I wonder how many of the previously “fully vaxxed” will now be fed up enough to join the resistance? (I’m thinking of you, Neighbor J and Furrydoc.)

In any case, totalitarianism marches on, this time on the excuse of a disease that’s generally been described as a bad cold.

Does anybody doubt that 2022 — if it doesn’t bring more outright and serious rebellion from We the People — will bring us vaccine passports and harsher restrictions on where we filthy, dirty, verminous unvaxxed are “allowed” to go or do?

Our freedom to do such things as buy groceries, fuel our vehicles, travel by air, and speak (relatively, well somewhat, or at least occasionally) freely is beginning to annoy Our August Betters and they have already made noises about finding ways to stop us.

If Omicron alone doesn’t bring Mr. Biden’s hoped-for “winter of death,” then slowly starving us may be the next-best alternative.


I’ve got a question for you. Theoretical at this point. But first here are two memes for inspiration:

The question: What will you do — or what do you think you and your neighbors should do — if the unvaxxed, or the previously “fully vaxxed” but now insufficiently boostered, are forbidden to access basic life needs? I’m thinking groceries especially.

This came up in conversation with a friend and fellow Outlaw the other day. And we, who are usually pretty much in harmony, had quite different takes on the subject.

Me: Fully vaxxed and boostered friends or black marketeers will make food runs for us and we’ll continue to quietly refuse to bow to Faucism no matter what pressures are brought to bear.

Him: (Quoting something he’d read online) “If I can’t buy groceries, then nobody’s gonna buy groceries.” Elaborating: Saboteurs and monkeywrenchers will track those who take advantage of their government-granted “privilege” of buying food. Those whose vehicles are spotted in grocery store parking lots will find their tires slashed, their gas tanks drained, or be otherwise marked as collaborators. It will be made painful and scary for them. If some of us are forbidden to buy groceries, then we’ll make it dangerous for any of us to buy groceries. Such was my friend’s take.

Me: Wow, that’s pretty harsh. That’s attacking both the innocent — those who simply want to eat — and the helpful. Some of those “privileged” people might be buying for their friends, neighbors, and relatives. I know people who would do that, either out of the goodness of their hearts or to make a small profit while still doing good. Why attack them?

We went back and forth, coming to no particular conclusions, but talking about such theoretical possibilities as Outlaws or black marketeers hijacking grocery distribution trucks, taking over food stores, or using non-lethal methods of preventing anyone from accessing stores (e.g. setting off stink bombs).

Sure, cutting off the unvaxxed and insufficiently boostered from food sources may never happen. In some ways it seems unlikely — a bridge too far, too reminiscent of Stalin’s genocide of the Kulaks. But then, nearly everything that’s been imposed on us in the last two years in the name of COVID would have seemed wildly unlikely as recently as 2019.

So we can discount no possibilities. We’re dealing with people who gloat at the prospect of our deaths, who want the world depopulated (looking at you Bill and Klaus), and who increasingly brook no resistance from We the Peasants. These are also people who believe they can do anything they want without ever facing consequences.

So even if you and your neighbors can produce most of your own food, or even if you’ve got a year or more of stocks in your pantry, what do you think you and your neighbors would or should do in a situation where diktats aim to prevent your fellow humans from feeding themselves and their families?


  1. Granny
    Granny January 1, 2022 4:19 am

    Well, Happy New Year to you too Claire! LOL. In all seriousness, this is the perfect question as many move in to 2022 apprehensively. Yes, there are those of us who have taken “stack it to the rafters” seriously. And there are those of us who live in denial because reality is too scary to contemplate. “Food smugglers” were shot during World War II, particularly in regards to getting food and supplies to Jews. This is a well documented fact of history.

    As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord, come what may. In practical terms, we are “preppers”, even while we pray for the Lord’s intervention.

    Never give up. Never give in. (Shovels may become necessary).

    That’s where I’m at.

  2. TrainReck
    TrainReck January 1, 2022 4:39 am

    I live near Boston and the city has vax pass rules starting in 2 weeks. Your post got me thinking about ways to peacefully push back. One idea might be to walk in to small restaurants where you have a decent chance of talking with the owner/manager rather than a hostess and say “Normally I’d ask you for a table but the mayor doesn’t want me to give you money tonight. Please contact her and tell her about this lost revenue and taxes.” Extra points to do it with a group of people and on a slow restaurant night.

  3. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 4:57 am

    TrainReck — Good luck to all who live in or near Boston, NYC, L.A., SF, etc.

    Every time I hear about another city imposing vaxx passports, I wonder when one of them will include grocery shopping and other life-sustaining needs. After all, if the unvaxxed/insufficiently boostered are “too dangerous” to enter a restaurant, they’re equally dangerous in the aisles of a supermarket.

    Yeah, I know. The current mandates are more a way of saying, “If you don’t cooperate, we’ll curtail your ability to enjoy life.” They haven’t yet reached, “If you don’t cooperate, you shouldn’t live.” But I’ll bet people like Mayor Michelle Wu are just itching to go there.

    Good luck with your ideas for polite resistance. I suspect nobody in authority will listen to you — or to protesting restaurant owners. But I hope I’m wrong. Anyhow, at this point any form of creative brainstorming about how to resist may turn out unexpectedly useful.

  4. George
    George January 1, 2022 5:01 am

    Racking a slide with finger on trigger is a classic baldwin moment.

  5. bogbeagle
    bogbeagle January 1, 2022 5:04 am

    Datos, ne quisquam seruiat, enses.

    (The sword was given for this, that none need live a slave.) – Marcus Annaeus Lucanus

  6. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 5:06 am

    You’re right, George. That photo is embarrassingly, tragically Hollywood.

    I wanted a better picture for that one (specifically a woman with a rifle slung over her shoulder, looking peaceable but adamant). But I just couldn’t make it work in the time I had allotted on New Years Eve. If somebody wants to make a better meme, I’ll swap it out.

  7. Me
    Me January 1, 2022 6:31 am

    His finger is outside the trigger guard. Calm down John Wick.

  8. pyrrhus
    pyrrhus January 1, 2022 6:51 am

    Claire, I don’t see how that kind of murderous government can work for the Dems, since the two minority communities that they pander to are the least vaxxed groups in America, and well armed too…The riots and looting of 2020 will look like kindergarten if they try to starve those folks…

  9. Scotpatriot
    Scotpatriot January 1, 2022 7:03 am

    Grocery stores can’t function without power/ electricity. Just saying😊

  10. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 7:13 am

    Scotpatriot — Now that’s really cutting to the chase!

  11. SWTWC
    SWTWC January 1, 2022 7:21 am

    Baldwin’s Colt could not have been “racked,” as it is not a semi-auto. Besides, he said he “didn’t pull the trigger” and, as a Leftard, he must be believed.

    [NM authorities are actively searching for an Unvaxxed ‘Person of Interest’ seen skulking near the scene].

  12. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 7:23 am

    pyrrhus — I suspect you’re right about the reaction. And certainly an attempt to deny food to any segment of the population merits an armed and violent response.

    As to not working for the Dems … that’s the fly in the ointment. Nothing the Dems are doing (or supporting) is working for them already. But Dems are responding like cultists who can’t admit to themselves that their dogma is repulsive and destructive. Challenged with realities they simply believe harder. And because they hold power, impose more of the same on the rest of us because it’s all they know how to do.

    Your two groups, for instance. We know the Dems have always believed they can take Black and Hispanic support for granted, no matter how much their policies harm them. And they go on believing that, even as election results of the last several years show they’re losing both groups (particularly the latter). So will they even think of that as they impose yet another stupid COVID mandate? I don’t think so. My guess is that the most Dems will do is something like set up special food banks for minorities only, or exempt certain minority neighborhoods from vaccine passports.

    The big factor IMHO is that Dem leaders are both arrogant and utterly divorced from the concept that their actions have consequences.

  13. Jolly
    Jolly January 1, 2022 7:25 am

    Some states have passed laws specifically saying that vaccinations are not required. I suspect that unless the feds try to enforce travel restrictions, that the border towns of those states will see a huge rise in traffic.
    I – really – don’t see how such a mandate can possibly be enforced here.
    We’re not Australia.


  14. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 7:29 am

    I – really – don’t see how such a mandate can possibly be enforced here.
    We’re not Australia.

    I completely agree that it can’t be enforced. They can try — and end up with more chaos.

    OTOH, how many of us thought Australia would end up as Australia has now done? Didn’t we think, “Hey, descendants of outlaws; they’ll fight back and they’ll overcome?”

    BTW, I had a revealing talk with an Australian freedom Outlaw recently, which I’ll report about on the forums if I find time soon.

  15. Stealth+Spaniel
    Stealth+Spaniel January 1, 2022 7:31 am

    So Help Me God; I am sick of the entire Covid Religion. Get vaxxed or don’t get vaxxed but leave me and my people alone. There are (literally) thousands of damned vaccines anyone can take. Most veterinarians and vet techs that I know have all had the anti-rabies shot. Why? Because some numnut is sure to bring in an unvaccinated dog/cat that will bite you. There is no coming back from rabies, so for them, it’s a necessary evil. Now-do we all need it? No. Unless you are handling animals of unknown quality, it would be stupid. How many folks have an up to date tetanus vax? Get cut on a rusty hoe, step on a dirty nail, or have a garden creature bite you; Important for all of us, as it a horrible death. I can guaren-damn-t-you, most of the Covid Vaxxers don’t have one. We could go on and on, however, if you are vaccinated against anything and still fearful of the disease….guess what? It isn’t working!! I am over this entire charade. Knowledgeable, compassionate, and needed nurses and doctors have been fired over this BS. (I feel that was to import foreign workers who have no compunction about killing you.) We need our own society, removed from these shedding monsters: or we simply need to perform a societal cleansing.

  16. Old-Trainer
    Old-Trainer January 1, 2022 7:57 am

    From my viewpoint, “we” have been pushed, prodded, insulted and in general vilified for over a year now and I don’t see that stopping anytime soon. With that, there is a huge ‘pushback’ from across the nation – stronger in some areas and weaker in others – but a lack of acceptance of the line being sold by the powers that be overall. I think that “we” will continue to resist and still prosper.

    So, there may be pockets (blue states/cities) that do try to restrict every day life by vax status but there will be a lot of areas who simply blow off such efforts and continue to provide for all in a community. The blue areas that adopt the “deny the unclean” philosophy will experience a huge amount of chaos and would likely collapse in short order. YMMV…

  17. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 7:57 am

    SWTWC — Thanks for the 🙂 no matter how black the humor.

    Stealth+Spaniel — Let’s go for the separate society or societies. “Cleansings” never clean anything, but only cover every surface with blood.

    I need to get back to that series I started this fall on separate (and hopefully functional) institutions. I’m absolutely an advocate of “going Galt” or Dreher’s “Benedict Option” or individual secession or whatever name and style you want to give the act of withdrawing from a sick, dysfunctional, corrupt society and creating something more healthy and sane. Have been for a long time. Lately I’ve just taken a detour into talking about what we might need to react to/cope with/answer in the short term.

  18. SWTWC
    SWTWC January 1, 2022 8:22 am

    I believe that FUSA (Former USA) will never come back–never rediscover its “First Principles” and our sacred Constitution. That ship has sailed. I now feel that our only hope is some uniquely American form of ‘Balkanization,’ hopefully without the Doom & Gloom as so vividly described by a witness/participant (Selko).

    Yes, Balkanization. Doubt me? It beats a shooting conflict in most ways–most. I would expect to begin to observe a migration of sorts, as Law & Order/Freedom-seeking people begin to physically distance themselves from the Clown Show of the Left, by moving to Red states.

    In turn, one hopes that the Left will return the favor by getting the F out of my state. Oh, many Callies (Leftards of the DPRK–Demokratik Peoples Republik of Kolyfornya) will try to stick around to spew their non reality-based idiocy, but they may eventually leave when the heat gets turned up……

  19. Kulafarmer
    Kulafarmer January 1, 2022 8:24 am

    That picture is how i feel about work and any jab mandates to be able to,,,,

  20. Swimcoachmike
    Swimcoachmike January 1, 2022 8:36 am

    Progressive white liberals far out number both black and Hispanic population counts in fusa

    DWEEZIL THE WEASEL January 1, 2022 9:13 am

    It gets back to the question: “Who will bell the cat?” When I watch New Yawk’s finest going into restaurants and rousting innocent people who do not have their “Papers”. I am reminded that the majority of Sheeple, Normies, and Cucks do not have a problem with this. There is no doubt in my mind the Nine Black-Robed Druids will weigh in on these mandates with a solid majority backing the Fauciites. What is the next step? You plan accordingly and STFU. Happy 2022, my Deplorable friends. Bleib ubrig.

  22. Joel
    Joel January 1, 2022 9:13 am

    I have predicted for years that when services are forbidden to the marginalized, those still privileged but on our side will turn providing those services into a business.

    I’m currently in the ‘fully vaxxed’ category* because all the people I do gigs for are well into their seventies and some of them are really paranoid about the disease. But lots of other neighbors resist taking the jab, and if they were cut off from groceries and fuel I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment to do their shopping for them.

    *Sidebar: among some right wingers, “fully vaxxed” has become equivalent to “Quisling,” which I quite resent. I had my own reasons for getting the jab and I don’t repent of it, but I am absolutely against mandating it or in any way punishing “the unvaccinated.”

  23. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 1, 2022 9:26 am

    Happy New Years to all!

    Last night I tried to watch a little of the celebrations going on on the tube for new years eve, one thing I noticed was when they showed NYC everyone had masks and when they showed Nashville only a few did. Parts of this country are very different than other parts even today.

    This is a very large country. There are so called purple, blue and red states and even in the blue & purple states there are many counties that are red and even in the red states there are counties that are purple or blue.

    So, if you study history, people tend to migrate when where ever they live becomes less than hospitable to them surviving there. We are seeing that now happening in this country.

    On top of that you have some areas becoming even more restrictive to the none conforming like in NY state now considering giving the governor the ability to detain those she deems a health danger(are they gonna to have to build camps for those she detains?), and due to actions like that I expect the migration to continue and even increase. I also expect the places that are the hell holes in this country today to become even more so.

    IMHO there will be let’s say “free-er areas” of this country. I know where I live, we have a very blue state government and a very red county government, so a lot of the people here aren’t abiding by the state mandates and the county doesn’t enforce those mandates. It’s rural here mostly with small rural type villages, you’re not considered a native unless you have lived here at least 25 years.

    What I am also noticing is as the federal government and the state government are getting more out of step with freedom it also is losing credibility with more and more people. I expect this trend to increase.

    I also believe as a federal &/or some state governments embraces more tyranny (seems to be headed in that direction in some states) more and more people will be looking more at their local communities for their survival.

    My advice to everyone is to find a local community where you have a fighting chance and go from there. Make allies with like-minded people. As for 2022, I don’t expect things to get better however unless you realize as I that the more people who love freedom become united the weaker tyranny becomes.

    This may not be true for everyone; some will submit and comply, everyone has different lines too but some IMHO will fight for their survival and freedom. The worst mistake tyranny can make in this country is to take away the choices of those who would rather die than be a slave.

  24. SWTWC
    SWTWC January 1, 2022 9:29 am

    Most on this blog would agree that the Social Contract is broken; Gargantua (fedgov) has violated the Contract, in virtually every aspect in which it can be violated.

    At any particular time & circumstance, a citizen can withdraw that Consent.

  25. Granny
    Granny January 1, 2022 9:37 am

    “Nine Black-Robed Druids” ROTFLOL! I have not respected the high court since “ObamaCare” – 100% unconstitutional and wrecked first class healthcare, among other things.

  26. Adino
    Adino January 1, 2022 9:42 am

    The reality of the situation is that the globe’s oligarchs have embraced the worldview outlined in the Georgia Guidestones.

    The world’s 1% have declared war on the 99%, and intend to eliminate 7.5 billion of the world’s 8 billion and enslave the rest in a global version of the Hunger Games. They are quite open about their goals and their methods are laid bare for all to see.

    The Great Reset, of which the Fauci Flu tyranny is based, along with the war on global supply chains (especially legacy energy sources and food) is all part and parcel of the 1%’s war on humanity.

    If one wants to win a war, one must properly identify the enemy and decide on how to best engage said threats.

    Elimination of food/energy distribution does not engage the source of the problem. It merely addresses symptoms of the problem (not entirely ineffective, but not the most effective). We need results not revenge (although I am not unsympathetic to those whose lives have been ruined here).

    The oligarch’s control and command system is the governments and central banks and financial systems of the west. They have made themselves tools in the oligarch’s hands, and are the enemy. But even engaging governmental and Big Finance forces falls short, because pissants can be replaced.

    The truth of the matter is that the 1% and their death grip on civilization and its pillars are the enemy that needs to be removed.

    How to remove them encompasses both violent and non-violent methods. I prefer and endorse peaceful resistance until/unless that proves ineffective.

    But the fact remains the 1% will eliminate the useless eaters, or the useless eaters will eliminate those desiring to eliminate us.

    There really is no choice ‘c’.

  27. Lucy
    Lucy January 1, 2022 9:44 am

    I am one of those who would rather die than be a slave. There are more and more of us coming forward. Maranatha.

  28. RC
    RC January 1, 2022 9:50 am

    There are now “no vax” job boards popping up, so that’s a possible resource for folks.

    I’m quite irritated at this whole mess. Put yourself at increased risk for heart disease or starve isn’t a choice I should have to make. It isn’t just about being allowed in the store, it’s about having income at all.

    Note, the OSHA rule is set to go into effect on Jan 10th. SCOTUS will begin hearings on Jan 7th. Whether enforcement is enjoined where you live is unclear to me, because I don’t know how a Circuit court can issue a nation-wide ruling. But here’s a report stating:

    The requirements remain blocked in the 25 states which were party to the litigation — including Kansas — but enforcement is dissolved in 25 other, mostly blue, states.

    How’s that for clarity?

  29. bogbeagle
    bogbeagle January 1, 2022 10:01 am

    They’re not going to let you simply ‘walk away’.

    You must surely know that.

  30. Bill T
    Bill T January 1, 2022 10:13 am

    If we did get a crazy edict preventing the unvaccinated from being able to obtain food they become an outlaw government that I have no obligation to follow. I would also have to consider it a physical attack on me and my family. While not advocating for violence as I have seen what comes from that during my time overseas. My right to self defense might at some point have to come into play.

    Although living where I do here in Nebraska I have little fear that this would be in anyway enforceable. Even here in Nebraska though, there is a significant population of Covidians that give you the stink eye for not acting afraid. I have little doubt as Claire pointed it that at the least they wish me to be in a gulag if not out right gassed. I am paying particular attention to those that live around me and taking note. I figure they will be the ones knocking at the door looking for their fair share what ever that means to them. I have a different opinion a I am sure.

    Also I think that even some of the vax’d are starting to see that they were sold a bill of goods. A coworker that took the shots to keep his job is adamant that he’s done with it and won’t do any more. I think the final nail was when I finally got him to research on his own the fact that there’s no approved vaccine, it is all still EUA. He had bought the lie that the Pfizer shot he took was fully approved. I kind of felt bad that I burst his belief in the Government.

    Hope that all have a better year this year than last. I don’t post much but I read every comment that’s made on every blog. I can’t begin to tell you how that’s helped me stay the course even though I am going to have to leave my job on the 14th because I won’t take a shot that has terrible side effects that range from mild to death, with no data on why that is.

  31. Bill T
    Bill T January 1, 2022 10:27 am


    I am currently going through this at work. I have the double problem of the DOD contractor E.O. And the OSHA “rule”. I am going to leave on the 14th of this month because of my non compliance. Corporate has offered to let me work week to week after the 14th but I have to submit to being treated as a second class person with testing and masking rules that the Vax’d don’t have to do. I have told them that I won’t be treated differently. They aren’t happy about it as I am the lead at my site and they have been advertising my slot for employment for over two months and that can’t find anyone. I feel though that they have to learn that there are consequences to blindly following the rules because of that sweet, sweet Federal contractor cash,

    The courts have made a mess that I don’t think will be resolved quickly nor on the side of individual freedom. I hope I am wrong but I have no faith.

  32. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 1, 2022 10:30 am

    Bill T, I have a very strong feeling you will land on your feet in this jump and might just look back at it one day as the best decision you ever made.

  33. Swrichmond
    Swrichmond January 1, 2022 10:44 am

    “And certainly an attempt to deny food to any segment of the population merits an armed and violent response.”

    Denying work / business / income is denying food, no?

    The Rubicon has already been crossed. Truths have been exposed. Sides have been chosen. We are entering the very necessary but very dangerous period where the casualties begin.

    We are heavily armed. That is the only reason this isn’t just like Australia, Austria, etc. The Second Amendment is already doing its job, but only because enough Americans took it seriously and defended it for the past 100 years of determined attacks against it.

  34. SWTWC
    SWTWC January 1, 2022 11:23 am

    @Bill T: You reside in a John Galt moment! Hang tough, and you may find that you have much more leverage than you originally thought.

    Oh! Have I stated yet in 2022, “FJB”?

  35. Toirdhealbheach Beucail
    Toirdhealbheach Beucail January 1, 2022 11:38 am

    Claire – In thinking about the wider implications, one of the things that stuck out to me was that all governments – even totalitarian/authoritarian ones – at some point have to make some kind of accommodation with reality in order to survive. To date, China is one that comes to mind (Capitalism overlaid with a communist control), but Vietnam is another example. Without that sort of safety valve, eventually enough of the citizenry will become unsupportive which may in turn cause the government to have issues of remaining in power (see the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) – witness the arming up of previously unarmed citizens in the fact of a growing crime spree following the decision to defund law enforcement as well as politicians backpedaling on the policy. When San Francisco is suddenly talking “tough on crime”, someone has realized a bridge too far may have been crossed.

    All of that to saw that prohibiting the unvaccinated – or some other future group not yet identified which also fails to meet the expectations of Our Political And Social Betters (OPASB) – from completely being able to acquire the basics of life seems a bit extreme if for no other reason that – OPASB being OPASB – they will inevitably overreach and lump a great many people in the same category (if the current cheerleaders for this sort of policy like this now, wait until OPASB starts mandating what we can eat based on our perceived obesity and health levels. That will be epic).

    Perhaps what I do see as likely or possible is a limiting of choices (“You, as a undesirable, have access to only Class III goods”) or the inability/inconvenience of entering stores to select for yourself (shopping service and more money, of course, or hopefully friends and neighbors that will shop for you). Also, of course, the growth of a black market and perhaps even the equivalent of an “Underground Railroad” for food from place to place.

    Food Smuggler. I may get to lead the exciting life of Han Solo yet.

  36. Edward
    Edward January 1, 2022 11:43 am

    There are no grocery stores if deplorable truckers park their trucks and if independence minded food producing states decide to keep and process (and sell) their food only at home. Such happenings would trigger riots in highly vaccinated cities, requiring storm troopers there.

  37. Fido
    Fido January 1, 2022 11:52 am

    @Scotpatriot – “power/electricity”
    When the bell rings, this may not be the first sign, but perhaps the most conclusive.

    @Jolly – “the border towns of those states will see a huge rise in traffic”
    That’s a fair bit galt right there, but ultimately, as long as we continue to use their money, they can control us, and bad money displaces good, so this is going to take awhile.

    @Stealth+Spaniel – “cleansing”
    Of course it will happen, it’s what people do. There lies a path to becoming the monster we fight. Try not to get any of that on you. What I do expect to see more of is the “witholding of mercy” when defending yourself from what you percieve to be career offenders.
    If we let defense become a full-time job, we’re done.

    Emotions are high, and those pushing the vax are clearly acting *desperately*. Why? Are the vaccines a form of eugenics? Are they some kind of primer leaving you exposed to a “kill switch”? Or to electromagnetic manipulation of emotions? Is it a “zombie apocalypse”? Why the desperation? There is wild speculation, but there is also a reason. Why? The Japanese have shown that *some* of these vaccines are just saline. Saline does not a quisling make. Yet clearly they are panicing, and the reason is not clear. Fear and wild speculation will make quislings until that changes.

    yeah, should have been obvious, but it took Dec 20th 2019 to convince me they are gone for good. I can be slow.

    “properly identify the enemy”
    “food/energy .. merely addresses symptoms”

    The enemy hides safely in the green zone. The closer to the green zone we are, the more compromised we become. Classic infiltration problem. The further from the green zone we are, the less certainty we can have about where it is, and who lives there. Identifying a sequestered enemy who fights by proxy is complicated, and different folks will reach different conclusions. This will cause division and infighting. And what if the green zone is in antarctica, and even the global bankers are just “symptoms”? Yet we can all be sure who their immediate proxies are, and as Solzhenitzn described, we can deny them their proxies, and we can do so with certainty and unity. If you have removed the symptoms, is it still a disease?

    Unfortunately our personal points of contact with their proxies will involve formerly benign events like traffic stops, and I can’t see clearly how that all plays out. Disturbing.

    “walk away”
    Yup, we are being punked.
    You cannot comply your way out of tyranny, but further: When a man tells you he intends to kill you, you should consider believing him. If you intend to survive, clearly you cannot make room for those who cannot make room for you. The tricky part is that you need certainty to act, and you *really* don’t want to be wrong here, as again you can become what you fight. If he can’t make room for you because you can’t make room for him, there has to be some way out for the Hatfields and McCoys, and there has to be certainty that you cannot negotiate a truce…. and you can’t just let them kill you while you negotiate. Ugly business this war.

  38. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 12:01 pm

    Bill T wrote:

    I have the double problem of the DOD contractor E.O. And the OSHA “rule”. I am going to leave on the 14th of this month because of my non compliance. Corporate has offered to let me work week to week after the 14th but I have to submit to being treated as a second class person with testing and masking rules that the Vax’d don’t have to do. I have told them that I won’t be treated differently. They aren’t happy about it as I am the lead at my site and they have been advertising my slot for employment for over two months and that can’t find anyone.

    Bill, I can’t tell you how much I admire your courage and your principles. At the same time, I realize that admiration doesn’t pay your utilities or support your family. I’m sure people here would support you in a more material way if it comes to that.

    Your comment about your company not being able to fill your position gives me hope that your employer will relent before it’s too late. Perhaps even now they’re hoping the Nazgul will give them permission to keep you on with no more strings.

    Yeah, we can’t count on the black robes to save anything, let alone our freedom.

    Even though you don’t comment here a lot you’re still part of the Living Freedom phyle. So if worse comes to worst, keep us posted and many will do what we can to keep you going.

  39. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 12:09 pm

    Joel — FWIW, virtually everybody I’m close to who is (or was) fully vaccinated is in the same boat you are. Most had doubts about the jabs even before the worst info came out, but they also had sick/elderly parents or friends that they weren’t going to abandon.

    I doubt anybody here would think you’re a quisling for making your own choices. The real quislings are the “obey the government or else” crowd.

  40. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 12:11 pm

    “if deplorable truckers park their trucks and if independence minded food producing states decide to keep and process (and sell) their food only at home”

    +100. Thank heaven for deplorables.

  41. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 1, 2022 12:16 pm

    “…….keep us posted and many will do what we can to keep you going.”


  42. Foot in the Forest
    Foot in the Forest January 1, 2022 12:25 pm

    Every animal, including human beings, have a point where they will turn and attack out of sheer survival mode. History is sure rhyming very well with the 1930’s just this time worldwide with a techno-fascist vibe. The ten steps are alive and well with the demonization of the unclean. WILL YOU BE ATTENDING CAMP THIS YEAR? What is your point?

  43. Wills from Reno
    Wills from Reno January 1, 2022 12:27 pm

    The following is not my authority to declare or even opine, I am just a messenger. It is above my pay grade – but since I’m paid nothing – a lot is above my pay grade.

    You all are writing is if you have far more “rights” than you really do. In the cosmic universe you have rights. Under a government as a private corporation/golem, which is really window dressing for a hostile foreign occupation, where any of the decisions not already protocoled out, are decided secretly in primitive tribal Kahal discussions – – the only real choice is whether or not to join the battle already in progress – – and effective half-measures are a figment of your imagination. As Chairman Mao Tse-tung famously declared – “All power comes from the barrel of a gun” [or similar] – – and even, as now, just to maintain some personal freedom.

    All the January 6th protesters that could not personally mount a huge and noisy legal defense are still languishing in jail, a year later, under some of the worst conditions that could be arranged without shocking the general public. Most people still think that is the exception rather than the rule. Those most people could not be more wrong. At this point resistance is necessary for survival of you and yours. But you have to be ready to be dealt with In manners beyond reason and humanity.

    I have been in and out of court for over 20 years on one issue after another of just trying to be left alone and live life productively, never making any victims or exercising any harmful intent, and after 17 years of homelessness, and when I couldn’t go any farther in this existence as is, I exercised item number 141 out of “179 things to do until the revolution.” Thereby I could work and live like a normal human being for the first time in 17 years. That worked until I tried to get travel papers. Multiple trials ensued for the same action with rules changed approximately 20 times in mid-trial to eliminate all possible defenses, and multiple DA’s stirring up trouble everywhere else. I am awaiting sentencing. And over the past 20 years, all this is par for the course. At one point there was even an arguably capital sentence involved, that I somehow lived through. And what did I do 20 years ago that was so offensive? I was a professional, family carrying husband, who on the worst day of a marriage, was desired less than a pile of – quote – “cash and a sporty lifestyle” – unquote. I am now in my third decade of punishment for that. And all that sadly is not exceptional either. The only reason you don’t hear about lots of cases like that is because everyone else, I ever met or heard of, and that would be hundreds or thousands, similarly-situated is dead. My point here is that these crazy unreasonable exercises of power and vengeance are now quite pervasive and in fact the rule. Deal with it.

    So be clever. Do what you have to do. But bear in mind that nothing that you do will be treated like a right, or even as a possible lark or a joke, or even just by any measure of proportionality. Whether you realize it or not, every action will be taken and dealt with as combat. Call it what it is, the business of Covid and all the databases involved are a full-on world war front – – conduct yourselves accordingly.

  44. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 12:37 pm

    “Progressive white liberals far out number both black and Hispanic population counts in fusa”

    Do they? I’d be curious to see your sources for that statement.

    Absolutely those “progressive white liberals” control public discourse, education, the media, etc. But I don’t think their actual numbers are as large as their visible influence. Even if you add together those progressive leaders and the “useful idiots” who parrot their slogans on Twitter, I believe they’d be outnumbered not just by blacks and Hispanics, but also by workaday white Democrats who are as sick of their shenanigans as the rest of us are.

  45. Chas
    Chas January 1, 2022 12:42 pm

    Very simple Miss Claire. Me and my few fellow Purebloods will put our ski masks on and take our sub-machine guns out and do a food/gas run, with no license plates of course. We will hold the store manager hostage while we shop, and when we have all we want we will have the cashier ring up our groceries and we will pay with cash… We will make sure the manager understands that we can keep doing this or he can stop asking/checking for our yellow star papers. The machine guns are for anyone stupid enough to be a hero/praetorian guard. Sorry to offend any of you cops/feds out there, but if you think we are wrong and they are right then we have NO mercy for you.. Being a REAL AMERICAN means you NEVER let anyone try to destroy you or your families… In The Name of The Father..

  46. Claire
    Claire January 1, 2022 12:42 pm

    All of that to saw that prohibiting the unvaccinated – or some other future group not yet identified which also fails to meet the expectations of Our Political And Social Betters (OPASB) – from completely being able to acquire the basics of life seems a bit extreme if for no other reason that – OPASB being OPASB – they will inevitably overreach and lump a great many people in the same category (if the current cheerleaders for this sort of policy like this now, wait until OPASB starts mandating what we can eat based on our perceived obesity and health levels. That will be epic).

    T_B, you express my best hopes — that OPASB (by that or any other name) will, in their arrogance and cluelessness, overreach and fall on their own, or fall with a surprisingly light push from We the Peasants.

    OTOH, I’m sure you’d make a dashing food smuggler. 😉

  47. GR21
    GR21 January 1, 2022 1:15 pm

    Meanwhile here in KaliforniaStan: Me and the Boi’s plan on airing-out ANYONE who attempts to put up roadblocks or any other such NONSENSE.

    They’ll probably be a bunch of blue, purple and green haired pussies(non-gender specific) and will scurry at the sight (or sights on them) of Male-pattern threat of violence from US vikings, deplorables and Testosterone filled Boi’s

    YMMV, and sight in for under 200 yards.

    Let the Games Begin !!!!

  48. Fido
    Fido January 1, 2022 1:30 pm

    I don’t see how checkpoints can be defended in rural areas, but a K-rail or ConEx blockade left unattended, but with “oversight” might be attempted. That would require addressing the oversight first. The home-court advantage comes into play. Rural Kali freedomistas are not well organized, due to the inherent risks involved, and an outlaw individualist culture steming from decades of growing contraband. Most don’t even know their neighbors. Friendly fire is a risk in these scenarios.

  49. pyrrhus
    pyrrhus January 1, 2022 2:48 pm

    Here in AZ, such an edict would never fly…the 3 most powerful forces in the State are Business, the Cartel, and Gun owners…all of which would be opposed…

  50. Bill T
    Bill T January 1, 2022 3:06 pm


    Thank for the kind words but I have been working on being able to walk away form any conventional employment for over 12 years now making it easier to just say no. It’s a bit sooner than I had planed but not the end of the world. So I don’t really think of myself being any great role model just someone that has planned ahead. And I have other opportunities showing up already.

    Plus it’s time to leave. I like my job but the company I work for was bought out last year and the new guy is even worse than the old boss and I was barely tolerating the old owner as it was.

  51. Chris
    Chris January 1, 2022 3:31 pm

    Count on it.
    Along with A Whole Lot more.

    Commercial Traffic….Target.

  52. GR21
    GR21 January 1, 2022 5:06 pm

    “Oversight” or “Overwatch”? I’m sure drones could or would be deployed…in those instances as a Friend of ours once remarked: “Than we’ve got bigger problems.”

    Not well organized is the point. But know who and where help is. And be prepared to barter or organize.

    I think unlikely Komrades will become very common. Unlike motivations, but very similar types of objectives. Food, medicines, fuels and weapons/ammunition. Hell, I know within a square mile where to get all of the above-if one were so inclined/prepared.

    Again, FWIW YMMV.

  53. MakeMineTexas
    MakeMineTexas January 1, 2022 5:44 pm

    I don’t know what will happen if they try to do that, but I think it will be uglier than simply getting your vaxxed friends and neighbors to shop for you.

    I live in the currently free state of Texas, so I’m not too worried about it happening here before the whole thing blows up in their faces, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see NYC try to enforce this. One thing I know for sure is that every time another over-the-top restriction is placed on people in other countries or in places like NYC, those of us out here in Free America take careful note and buy more food and ammo.

  54. Fido
    Fido January 1, 2022 6:17 pm

    I”m not even sure *what* help is, much less who or where. (CoGT?)
    I engineer, and am prepared to be *quite* useful to whatever structures emerge with the gods of the copybook headings, should my ethics allow, but even that seems like hopium at the moment. My talents are techincal and reductive, I can barter, but I can only organize the way I give charity, anonymously, and imperceptibly where possible.

    It does seem like we are beyond tactics and well into logistics at this point.
    Given all the ways things can go sideways and turn you into the monster you’re fighting, the nearly insurmountable stumbling block would seem to be trust. It takes time, and we’re out of that.

  55. Just Waiting
    Just Waiting January 1, 2022 8:53 pm

    I live in the very last link at the very end of the supply chain. 150 miles to the closest Interstate, 250 miles in any direction to the closest hub of anything, only 1 road in and out. Final products get delivered here, they do not pass through here on their way to somewhere else.

    I used to be a driver, and I also ran a 36 bay distribution center that saw 75-100 trucks a day come through it. I remember the days when factories and other producers kept back stocks of essential components and materials, in the days before Just in Time. And I see how seeming minor glitches in the chain cause big ripples far away.

    So I’m a bit sensitive to production and supply chain. Back during the Great TP Rush of ’20, I started paying closer attention to the stock in my local stores, and watched things disappearing every week. Stock is returning, but there’s a delicate balance between supply and demand right now and you’d better to be ready to accept “next best option” when you shop.

    I’m in a pretty red area in a very blue state. While I do have concerns about vaxes for shopping, I’m also concerned whether trucks will be allowed to come here at all if we don’t as a group comply. As driver shortages continue to worsen, when it’s time to cut areas off, we probably go first. There’s plenty of demand all along the chain before us and it costs more to send stuff here. That’s just economics. But we have the lowest vax rate in our state, and our county gov has gone on record against any mandates from the state, but only 3 of the 7 of us do not mask and I am the only one openly anti-mask. I have to wonder how much politics will weigh as a determinant?

    Bill T, you’re not alone standing up. I’m awaiting word from the Grand Stately Poobessa that she’s decided me and those like me will have to be vaxxed to continue to hold office. I hope there’s more than just me when the time comes. If nothing else removing me will make for an interesting and probably precedential court case.

  56. Aime Hart
    Aime Hart January 2, 2022 4:31 am

    Those Georgia Guidestones someone referred to are granite statues IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. Let that sink in a minute.
    They are extremely difficult to find and get to in a vehicle.

    Their goals are just as difficult to obtain.

    It’s all symbology

  57. Simon Templar
    Simon Templar January 2, 2022 5:32 am

    So far, I am in the camp of: “Mandate, schmandate. If they can’t effectively enforce it, and I don’t think they will ever be able to, then it is just so much hot air, pandering, PR, and BS.”

    Until, of course, it isn’t. Then, like quite a few others here, I think I would consider denial of food, even if it were just partial or indirect, to be in the category of “possibly life-threatening physical attack” and I would therefore consider violent, armed responses to be appropriate. Denying employment is getting very close to this admittedly rather vague and fuzzy line (gradient?) in the sand.

    I am looking forward to your piece about your talk with the Australian freedom Outlaw. I, too, used to think “Hey, descendants of outlaws; they’ll fight back and they’ll overcome?” The news is very different, but I definitely do not trust the news to tell us the whole story.

  58. Maniac
    Maniac January 2, 2022 6:20 am

    TrainReck, I reside in New England. What are these Beantown vaccine passports you speak of?

  59. Van Cronkhite
    Van Cronkhite January 2, 2022 7:12 am

    If this were to become reality what would stop social media flash mob from all entering a grocery store at once, 50 to 100 people all walking past the inept rent a cop checking vaccine credentials?

    How about door dash? They shop for you.

    Amazon sends dry good to your door, sometime next day. (ya, you’re doing business with bezos)

    In Austria the lockdowns were increased and protests forbidden, and the long arm of the government enforcement racket, that is the police walked off the job and joined the protestors. Italy had thousands of restaurants re-open while refusing to require masks or vaccine passports, the all powerful state quickly and quietly folded and rescinded the restrictions on those who were dining out.

    Mass civil disobedience can, does and will work. Violence will beget more violence.

  60. pyrrhus
    pyrrhus January 2, 2022 7:18 am

    Let me make myself clear..There is no question that any such attempt to deny the necessities of life to a substantial part of the population will be met with armed force, except perhaps in parts of the Northeast…And few will be willing to work in such stores or shops, because it will be too dangerous and for much of the population, too immoral…..

  61. Granny
    Granny January 2, 2022 7:41 am

    The red vs blue “situation” has caused me to plan for the potentiality of a balkanized America. I have studied what is readily available in my region (not studied enough!). For instance, in my area there are farmers and ranchers that I purchase/trade with – getting those relationships established and nurtured is critical, in my opinion. The growing zone is ~7 so a lot can be grown Spring through Fall. I’ve heard of there being a shortage of motor oil (and parts) and I’ll find out when I do the oil change and tuneup on my vehicle. My tires are in excellent condition but getting close to the end of their life (should I go ahead and get new tires or buy spares?). Home maintenance has been a priority, again, due to shortages of “parts”. Animal feed is all grown locally, so I don’t see that being a problem but I try to stay months ahead of need. My dogs will happily eat beef, rabbit, quail, chicken, rather than kibble. Tools (of the manual type) will be important, but I have a long list I’m working through. Property security might become critical and I have a little work to do there, etc etc etc.

    It’s a lot to think about. I have this idea in my head (cue the Hunger Games fantasies) that I will be able to close the entry gate and not open it for a long time. Picking off marauders, on the other hand, is not my forte.

    In my recent move I traded the security that living in the mountains with tons of snow brings for a longer growing season, basically.

  62. Erin
    Erin January 2, 2022 8:12 am

    “Fully vaxxed and boostered friends or black marketeers will make food runs for us and we’ll continue to quietly refuse to bow to Faucism no matter what pressures are brought to bear.”

    It does not make sense. How is this refusing to bow? All you are doing is kludging a workaround. Untill the next turn of the screw.

  63. Claire
    Claire January 2, 2022 12:02 pm

    “It does not make sense. How is this refusing to bow? All you are doing is kludging a workaround. Untill the next turn of the screw.”

    It was a starting point for a brainstorming session. And indeed yet another kludgy workaround. Hopefully only until a more effective Plan B could be worked out.

    Tell me what your solution would be.

    Oddly enough, in this otherwise active and interesting discussion, few people are answering my original question.

  64. bogbeagle
    bogbeagle January 2, 2022 12:38 pm

    To be fair on your commenters … being forthright in answer to your original question, might be foolhardy.

  65. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 2, 2022 1:03 pm

    “Fully vaxxed and boostered friends or black marketeers will make food runs for us and we’ll continue to quietly refuse to bow to Faucism no matter what pressures are brought to bear.”

    It is all about priorities IMHO, first is to survive, second is to do whatever ya got to do. So maintaining a flow of nourishment has to happen no matter what you do.

    Claire on that original question, is that; if you have taken the jab will you be doing the booster?

    I didn’t take the jab but I have two friends who did, both of which have said they would not be doing any boosters.

  66. Dorvann Malachi
    Dorvann Malachi January 2, 2022 1:55 pm

    I think the idea of going to grocery stores armed and trying to force them to sell/give your groceries is could be short-sighted.

    Or the idea of sabotaging other shoppers vehicles by slashing their tires and draining their gas either.

    Because eventually these people will fight back and you will probably be killed. I am reminded of this quote:

    “Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts… deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers… put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time… and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes…” Quark to Nog– Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

    My point being if you interfering with your neighbor’s and other people’s ability to survive and acquire food eventually they will lash out violently. And not necessarily at big government.

    And I understand entirely being frustrated by people “collaborating” with big government. But depending where you live in the US you better be careful to “read the room” so to speak and determine which side the majority of residents your area are going to side with . You or big government. Frankly where I live I don’t think saboteurs would real last long.

  67. Granny
    Granny January 2, 2022 2:06 pm

    “So even if you and your neighbors can produce most of your own food, or even if you’ve got a year or more of stocks in your pantry, what do you think you and your neighbors would or should do in a situation where diktats aim to prevent your fellow humans from feeding themselves and their families?”

    The real answer is… they will suffer the same fate as Marie Antionette. I thought that was a given.

  68. Granny
    Granny January 2, 2022 2:09 pm

    And… I do think we need to prepare to feed others, although that’s a sticky wicket.

  69. Bill T
    Bill T January 2, 2022 2:17 pm

    Comrade X I know others in the same camp. Bought into the return to normal line and now regret it.

  70. Fido
    Fido January 2, 2022 2:55 pm

    @Claire – “few people are answering my original question”
    @bogbeagle – “being forthright in answer to your original question, might be foolhardy.”

    Yeah, it’s really more of a logistical question, since the effects of just about any action taken here would have to be evaluated in minutia in each application, to know what their effects would be.
    For instance:

    @Comrade X – “will you be doing the booster?”
    The pool of folks both qualified to buy food in proxy for us, and willing to do so may be dwindling sharply.

    @Dorvann Malachi – “I don’t think saboteurs would real last long”
    Clearly how these actions affect specific people, where they live, what are their values, is key to any guess at what reaction you’d get.

    So, shall we talk logistics? How to take down a powerline? A Bridge? A radio tower? A brigade of “technicals”? How to get or make the materials to do so? Or how to select a target and time to maximize effect on “enemy” and minimize effect on “friendly”? Or to disable vehicles in pursuit to avoid stops? Helicopters? These things are all actually doable, but is discussing them online actually doable? Or how to communicate securely? How do we talk about *that*?

    Yet if we don’t work these ouy in minute detail *before* taking *any* action:

    @Dorvann Malachi – “Frankly where I live I don’t think saboteurs would real last long”

    I notice that I seem to feel that I’d need to seek permission from my neighbors before I’d take action that might seriously affect them. Maybe I don’t *need* their permission or maybe I do, but I’d *have* to try, and I have no clue how to do that without sabotaging such an effort. My actions seem stuck within the perimeters of my possessions, and those scenarios don’t play well.

    @Granny – “Marie Antionette” “prepare to feed others”

    We certainly are more capable if we retain the *option* to feed others.

    I think the percentage of folks on the “pikes and lampposts” brigade is *tiny* compared to times past, but they still exists, and those unwilling to defend themselves are likely to suffer early and profound attrition. That ratio will change quickly, but I still feel clueless here.

    On that note, I’ve long been expecting a major change in demographics in rural areas, as the locals who are unprepared (mentally) for any actual independance begin moving closer to the source of their sustainance: shopping, welfare, and eventually the FEMA camps, while folks formerly living urbane, for the jobs, materials, family, etc. start bugging out to their preps in the rural. I think I’ve seen some signs of this, but it’s too early to be certain.

  71. Erin
    Erin January 2, 2022 3:29 pm

    “Tell me what your solution would be.”

    I think a lot of us are struggling with this problem, in its many permutations.
    I am inclined to the view that people who accept, even with kludging, a society where subpopulations are rendered less than human and denied access to basic livelihood are all collaborators and enablers. Haggling with evil is a game only the devil wins.

    So, step one: secede. In Germany, that meant either emigrating, or committing oneself to the guerilla war against the system. A very brave, dangerous and momentous decision. We don’t really have emigration as a choice. We still have pockets that are safer than others… but for how long? So… secede. Radically remove your loyalty from the system. I am at that point. I see the world I love destroyed by a thousand cuts every day. I am tired of losing.

    Step two?

    I am trying to work it out. But in a situation where a genocidal government is trying to starve the people out… trying to getahold of food is tactics. Tactics emerge on the ground. What is needed beforehand is clear eyed strategy.

    Oh, and one other thing. I am not sure about slashing tires, but yes, defectors need to be penalized. Basic game theory.

  72. Fido
    Fido January 2, 2022 4:22 pm


    “I am inclined to the view that people who accept, even with kludging, a society where subpopulations are rendered less than human and denied access to basic livelihood are all collaborators and enablers. Haggling with evil is a game only the devil wins.”

    “trying to getahold of food is tactics. Tactics emerge on the ground. What is needed beforehand is clear eyed strategy”

    I stand corrected. We need to talk strategy first, logistics later. As an engineer, I’m more qualified in the later, and lean there. I’ll use that to explain (not excuse) my error.


    I like this, though I don’t see how I can do much there unilaterally, beyond avoiding their money, and other jurisdictions… and “unilaterally”, is all I got at the moment, or even in the foreseeable.

    “defectors need to be penalized. Basic game theory”

    That’s a hard pill to swallow, but your argument is sound, and I have found no sound counter argument. The “Prisoner’s Dilemma” and “tit for tat”, should be familiar to all. Reason hardens me yet again.

    apologies in advance for off topic, but I must:

    Though my hubris counts me as both, my father once described to me the difference between scientists and engineers:

    A scientist and an engineer each try to approach an attractive girl. To do so, each must successively cut the distance to her in half. The scientist will never get to her, while the engineer will get “close enough for practical purposes”.

  73. Abel Charles
    Abel Charles January 2, 2022 4:50 pm

    I would just enter the store, get my purchases, and pay in cash with government-issued bills that say, “Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private,” even if they don’t want to take your cash. I don’t think shutting down the food supply/distro as your friend suggests would be beneficial – it would probably have the effect of turning fellow citizens against the non-fully-vaxxed.

    Make friends and build community so that if there is a ban, the fellow community members who are fully vaxxed will be willing to purchase said supplies for the non-fully-vaxxed.

  74. bogbeagle
    bogbeagle January 3, 2022 1:05 am

    In December of 2020, I ran an informal Poll of my immediate neighbors, using the ‘Nextdoor’ social medium. Respondents to my Poll, answered in complete anonymity.

    I live in an English village, of about 800 persons.

    I asked one question in that Poll, which was, “Do you support Forced Vaccinations?” There were fewer than 100 Respondents, but of those who DID respond, 66% were in favor of force being used against the non-compliant.

    It so happens that 66% is a ratio which gels very neatly with the work of Stanley Milgram. But, that may be coincidental.

    Honestly, until then, I never really knew or understood this darkness in human nature. Or, maybe I just never really believed in it.

  75. TrainReck
    TrainReck January 3, 2022 6:45 am

    Poor choice of words by me. Not really a vax pass (yet) but a Boston vax mandate starting 1/15 for restaurants, etc. I’m assuming the easily forged card is acceptable proof for now.
    Coming soon to a woke New England city near you I’m sure.

  76. Granny
    Granny January 3, 2022 8:05 am

    I just learned that proof of vaccination will hit truckers who haul into the U.S. from Canada and Mexico this month. If I look at imports from Canada, there’s quite a list. We know a lot comes from Mexico. I guess I’ve been focused on imports from across the seas. I don’t know how much of a squeeze on the overall supply chain that is, but it’s something to think about. As in, what do I use or need that would be affected by those “embargoes”, basically.

    I do believe TPTB fully intend upon starving and stressing us into compliance. It’s going to be as much of a mental game as a physical one, not discounting all out spiritual warfare. I refuse to cower in darkness and fear.

  77. Joel
    Joel January 3, 2022 8:42 am

    ““Fully vaxxed and boostered friends or black marketeers will make food runs for us and we’ll continue to quietly refuse to bow to Faucism no matter what pressures are brought to bear.”

    It does not make sense. How is this refusing to bow? All you are doing is kludging a workaround. Untill the next turn of the screw.”

    Study the Whiskey Rebellion, which was a failure on paper (because of a hapless attempt at armed rebellion in one region that got all the publicity) but overall a complete success (because of civil disobedience and “kludgy workarounds” everywhere else in the new nation. )

    “Kludgy workarounds” are what make a hated law unenforceable, and an unenforceable law not only won’t remain in force but helps delegitimize the entities that made the law. Don’t underestimate the power through inventiveness of a bunch of rednecks with home distilleries.

  78. James
    James January 4, 2022 4:47 am

    Question for you, Claire — do you happen to know which post here got the most comments? This comment thread seems pretty lengthy, but that’s just how it looks to me, a relatively recent and intermittent reader.

  79. Claire
    Claire January 4, 2022 5:42 am

    Good question, James. I wish I had a good way of finding the answer.

    This thread (and a couple others in the last few months) have definitely become among the top 20 or maybe even top 10 in terms of both numbers and IMHO quality. We also have a lot of new or relatively new commentors.

    But somewhere in the deep, dark past (i.e. the last five years) a couple of comment threads went over 100 responses.

  80. Just Me
    Just Me January 4, 2022 8:08 am

    The answer is different for urban and rural folks. Rural folks will soon resort to just hijacking the shipments going into the cities, which will also have the effect of severely limiting urban supply.

    I don’t think we can expect others to buy for us as the commissars will likely institute ration cards along with the vax passports, if for no other reason than to eliminate that mode of transfer. After all, it’s not about safety, it’s about control.

    I’m pretty sure that some will take a que from the anarchists on the coasts and have ‘flash mobs’ of unvaxxed shoppers. But, even though they can never find the culprits who do that now, they will remarkably be able, all of the sudden, to identify every one of them and arrest them.

  81. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 4, 2022 9:05 am

    Aesop, he who knows all, he knows so much that no one else is even allowed to ask a question, just do and think as he demands.

    IMHO there are some who pretend to be on the side of liberty that are not any different than the authoritarians that we oppose, they know what is best for the rest, just fall in line and follow their demands and absolutely no questions.

  82. Erin
    Erin January 4, 2022 9:40 am

    Comrade, if they “know what is best for the rest, just fall in line and follow their demands and absolutely no questions” then they are just another group of authoritarians,no? By their fruits ye shall know them.

  83. Claire
    Claire January 4, 2022 10:12 am

    Amen, Comrade and Erin.

    I hadn’t even read Aesop’s attempted takedown of me before I started writing this comment, but wow. He thinks I set up an idiotic either/or when I clearly stated in the post that that either/or was just the beginning of a conversation about other options AND when the main point of the post was to ASK READERS for other options and viewpoints???

    Jeezy peazy, someone didn’t bother reading before blarting.

    And Erin, thank you for you very thoughtful comment in reply to my request about what should be done.

    And Joel, thank you for your very apt comment in response to Erin’s first.

    There are so many good comments coming in (once again) that I can’t keep up.

  84. Erin
    Erin January 4, 2022 10:34 am

    By the way, I just read the thread over at Aesop’s, and I thought they made some very good points. And added amusing and appreciated warrior swagger. 🙂

  85. Granny
    Granny January 4, 2022 11:52 am

    Ahhhh, Aesop – gotta love ‘im. Yeah, he’s rude (“warrior swagger”), but that’s his style. He just blasts everything and everyone, but he does make good points. I read a variety of blogs because I like to give my mind balanced input. I don’t have to agree with anyone or anything. I love your blog Claire because you take a reasoned approach and not a bat to the subject. You also allow reasoned conversations. I appreciate that! I read Aesop because I appreciate the harsh responses to what’s going on in our world. As of now, we are free to hear all the voices and sort through things (critical thinking) as individuals and make our own conclusions. We are free to ignore the voices we don’t agree with or don’t like. I never take Aesop to heart, but I like to hear what he is thinking.

  86. Fido
    Fido January 4, 2022 11:59 am

    I’ve been sitting on this. I explain why at the end.

    What has happened in recent years has been surprising in it’s detail and absurdity, but SOMETHING was expected and certain, and has been for a long time.

    We appear to finally be in the resource collapse that math and the laws of physics declare inevitable, and that professor Albert Allen Bartlett warned us about:

    “The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” –

    It’s an old story. We’ve seen it innumerable times and studied it in minutia in animal population cycles. Did you think our species was immune?

    This collapse was never avoidable, though it could always be delayed by making it worse: doubling down, or hastened, to make it happen at a time of choosing.

    Our population will “adjust” to that which resources can support. That curve is well known. Slowly, then suddenly.

    Do the math. Make your own assessment as to what possible forms this adjustment process would have to take, in order to get the job done, and which of these might be employed to manipulate the timing. Plan accordingly. Extra points for guessing how this “opportunity” might be exploited to acheive “other” objectives, and by whom.

    This is ugly. Any survivors will have overcome their resistance to violence against strangers en mass. I want this to be wrong, but wishing will not make it so. I would love nothing more than a reasoned objective refutation, should one be possible, but decades of searching has produced only vague hope in black swans. I expect no argument, only disagreement and shaming. I’m likely burning a bridge here. Maybe it’s time. It’s certainly not the first time.

  87. bogbeagle
    bogbeagle January 4, 2022 1:09 pm

    Bartlett’s work; I think that his logic is unassailable.

    It’s fashionable to reject Malthus, but that fashion has its root in Political ideology, rather than logic. IMO.

    I’m in England. We have about 56 million people living here. Well, that’s the official number.
    We know that a pre-industrial England could support about 5 million people. And the essential difference between ‘then-England’ and ‘now-England’ is the exploitation of fossil fuels.

    Energy. The economy; life itself, are dictated by the availability of energy, and by our capacity to exploit it. We think of the economy as ‘money changing hands’, but that’s really just a metaphor for ‘using energy’.

    I think that a modest reduction in the amount of energy which is available, might utterly undermine our complex societies. From what I understand of the energy industry, such a reduction is inevitable; it’s probably already begun. I had expected it to happen organically, but it feels as tho it’s being orchestrated (accelerated) by State’ actors.

    I DO know that I live in a World in which I cannot plan for the future. Such is the uncertainty. Life is contracting to ‘the now’. I would guess that many of you feel something like that.

  88. James
    James January 4, 2022 1:24 pm

    “Ahhhh, Aesop – gotta love ‘im. Yeah, he’s rude (“warrior swagger”), but that’s his style.” (Granny)

    I agree. He can be highly abrasive, and basically gives no grace to anyone, which I think unwise; after all, at some point, all of us are going to need a little grace, and at those times, we have to hope that the Wheel-O-Karma isn’t going to run over us like roadkill. On the other hand, he does get a lot of things right, and he’s generally pretty entertaining as well, so his blog is on my regular internet rounds. I enjoy the wheat and pass on what I evaluate as chaff. Everyplace I stop online, I go through that same sorting process (even Living Freedom, if that can possibly be believed!).

    The only person with whom I always agree is me — and that’s only because, when I disagree, I can always change my mind. And yes, that does seem a little schizophrenic.

    Claire, I bet this one eclipses 100 comments. Shoot, I haven’t even yet attempted to answer the question you posed above. Still rolling it around in the empty and cobwebbed space I call “my mind.”

  89. larryarnold
    larryarnold January 4, 2022 3:09 pm

    I would expect to begin to observe a migration of sorts, as Law & Order/Freedom-seeking people begin to physically distance themselves from the Clown Show of the Left, by moving to Red states.

    The ten-year Census reapportions the House of Representatives, and thus is a slice-by-slice look at where population is shifting. The last time New York broke even was in 1940. Every decade since then the state has lost at least one seat. N.Y. will go into the 2022 election with 19 fewer Representatives than in 1942. And note that the 2020 Census counted where people lived April 1, 2020, before Covid and BLM began encouraging migration.

    IMHO California rode successive booms, from 1849 to Silicon Valley, but that peaked with the gain of one seat in 2000. They broke even in 2010, and lost a seat in 2020.

    OTOH Texas and Florida have gained seats, often more than one, in every Census since 1940. That’s an 80-year trend.

    Reference actions against grocery stores and vaxxed shoppers: They aren’t the ones mandating the restrictions. It’s the head of the rattlesnake where the venom is, the tail just makes the warning noise.

    If I was on the TPTB tactical planning staff, I’d be pointing out they have 11 months until the 2022 election. Unless they want to lose Congress, they either have to put mandates, etc. on hold and concentrate on giving away “free” stuff, or crack down enough to provoke a reaction much greater than Jan. 6, which they’ve beaten to death, as a Reichstag moment they can use to crack down on the Deplorables and cancel the election.

    Unfortunately, I think the intellectuals are too controlled by their philosophy to consider the tactics or strategy of the situation.

  90. Toirdhealbheach Beucail
    Toirdhealbheach Beucail January 4, 2022 3:57 pm

    @Bogbeagle: “I DO know that I live in a World in which I cannot plan for the future. Such is the uncertainty. Life is contracting to ‘the now’. I would guess that many of you feel something like that.”

    Yes, it feels exactly like that. It is hard to plan for one of several potential outcomes when one does not know which one will come to pass. I could build the most secure of living places to “bug out” to – and have it swept away in a fire, flood, or snowstorm. I could secure where I am in an urban environment only to have it all swept away by the same factors or by riots – or I could hide it out and wait it out. One does the best one can given the potential options, and works to find similar minded people – for moral support, if nothing else.

  91. Just Me
    Just Me January 4, 2022 4:22 pm

    Just remember, anyone denying you the basics of life is declaring war on your family. They are trying to do to you what the Nazis did to the Jews.

    If the Germans had a 2nd amendment, Hitler would have been gone long before he did himself in. How long do you think Nancy, Chucky, and AOC can hide?

    Yes, it will get ugly, but it’s going to be needed if they try that.

  92. Claire
    Claire January 4, 2022 4:26 pm

    NorthGunner — I didn’t approve your last two comments because they’re anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism has never been allowed here.

    And no,I’m not going to respond “rationally” to Aesop because he didn’t respond rationally to me. There’s no point in engaging with someone who’s already demonstrated that he’ll simply misrepresent my position no matter what I say.

  93. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 4, 2022 6:10 pm

    I don’t know who said this but it does sounds like a good policy to me;

    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

  94. Erin
    Erin January 4, 2022 6:40 pm

    Bogbeagle, I wonder what would the ratio(of authoritarians) be in the Colonial days. You know, before the American Revolution. I am betting it wasn’t any better. The PTB have been killing our best and brightest for thousands of years now. We gotta be grateful it’s not worse.

    Look at it from another angle. What matters is not some imaginary majority. But rather critical mass. If you have a hundred people, and 34 of them are upstanding people with character,playing well the game of life, and willing to make sure that vice is penalized and virtue rewarded, it’s probably plenty for a well functioning group. The 66 will fall in line under normal circumstances.

    Joel: ““Kludgy workarounds” are what make a hated law unenforceable”
    Well, actually, what made the hated law unenforceable was the nature of frontier America. Much later tax on alcohol was reinstututed, and is with us still. And for a time, the feds got so insane that even paying tax wasn’t enough, nobody could make alcohol (only criminals). — Nobody won this one because the rapacious nature of the federal government was never properly challenged and delimited.

    Mostly though, my critique of Claire’s initial proposal focuses on that fact that what is dealt with is the actual food provisions (a tachnical issue, whether you are feeding the Jews or the Outlaws), and people have a tendency to forget about the crucial needed strategy at the center of this, which is how do we deal with the genocidal powers that be, now, and always.

    Allow me to illustrate: of couse some folks would have fed the Jews. Even at great danger to themselves. But in the end, the cattle cars would be waiting, because you’ve won the battle and fed the neidghbors, while losing the war, which is the totalitarian juggernaut.

    Fido, I like Bartlet too. What we have is even worse though… not only do we have a pond so overgrown with reeds it will choke in just one more day, but we have a nine-headed dragon sitting next to it, eating anyone who tries to cut the reeds back.

    I had wondered why you thought the idea of penalizing defectors was so unpalatable. After all, it’s called altruistic punishment. Doing an unpleasant job so that no one freerider can ruin it for everybody.

  95. Fido
    Fido January 4, 2022 7:39 pm

    exactly: kludgey workarounds permit the tyranny to persist.

    As an engineer, I like them, as I am good at them, I can do them unilaterally, and they simply bypass the issue. Win-win, in a one off. It’s my default behavior. Against punking however, it just provokes more tyranny, as was suggested by the mention of ration cards, or any number of *other* technical countermeasures. It then becomes a cat and mouse game that taxes us more than them, even if we are *always* able to kludge workarounds. (the story I was told was that prohibition was about forcing Ford to force his customers to burn gasoline only. Prohibition ended immediately after Ford stopped making dual fuel cars)

    Re: Bartlett, my point is that something like this (well… it didn’t *have* to be clown world) was going to happen anyways as that’s all that the laws of pysics allow for, but yes, Tyrants are using this for their own agenda, and need it to hold to a particular timeline to do so. Anyone upsetting that timeline will be eaten where possible.

    “I had wondered why you thought the idea of penalizing defectors was so unpalatable. After all, it’s called altruistic punishment. Doing an unpleasant job so that no one freerider can ruin it for everybody.”

    I may not be exactly sure why just now…

    My gut says it feels like initiating force, and “harming an individual for the benefit of everybody else” always gives me a tummy ache. Also, to placate the “initiating” concern, I need clear certainty that I’m acting in self defense. While that seems abundantly clear to me now through reason, my gut is still catching up. Over the decades, I have developed a very close relationship with my gut. It’s *not* the truth, and can be fatally wrong, but it has saved my ass far more times than it has led me astray.

  96. Just Waiting
    Just Waiting January 4, 2022 8:18 pm

    Back to the original question, it’s based off the assumption there will basic services available to anyone. None of us can know how long the certainty of supply will last, but when it stops for some it will stop for all.

    The moment the exclusion/ban begins, various and numerous forces will start working against it.

    All of the big distribution centers/feeder hubs are located in the cities. I don’t see it being very long before people band together and kick into survival mode, there’ll be hijackings and other large scale theft, leaving supplies to dwindle and quickly there’s nothing on the shelves for anyone at any price. As transit becomes more unsafe, the centers will empty and there will be no restocking them.

    I gotta hope at some point that enough folks say “Hey, we’re getting played” and band together, but hope for unity on anything is getting harder to come by every day.

  97. Fido
    Fido January 4, 2022 8:33 pm

    @Just Waiting
    Good points. Resources are largely rural, but manufacturing and distribution is urban. Smash and grabs on the centers and trucks will grind it to a halt, and *that* will cause a great urban cry for government to “fix it”, with little concern how.

    I’m confident the engineers of this shit-show have a very specific “how” just waiting in the wings.

  98. Erin
    Erin January 5, 2022 12:50 am

    A while back someone wondered if we were to learn to take out a bridge, etc. It made me smile. We are not fighting the European Nazis where every train track went to Auschwitz. We are under attack by our own government who, as the Christmas song recently put it, wants us dead. Taking out the infrastructure would only harm us, not help us. We gotta focus on the needs of today. I am trying to figure out how to support the current push by a few brave professionals to out the lies and grisly doings of the corruptocrats.And it’s not enough to out them. They know we know. How do you stop a psychopath on a rampage?

  99. Granny
    Granny January 5, 2022 6:15 am

    @bogbeagle Your post made me think and these are my thoughts.
    I reject the “scarcity model” in all of it’s variations. We are not running out of resources. The idea that millions of people should cram into urban hubs thereby creating a local resource shortage is the key problem. IMHO. The United States of America is half the size of Russia and larger than Brazil or China. If you’ve ever driven across the country, by the northern or southern primary routes, you can see with your own eyes how much land we have. And it’s hospitable land, not like Siberia as an example. The square miles of America is somewhere in the vicinity of 3,717,792. A square mile is approximately 640 acres. The population is approximately 333,929,490. I have visited most states and it is true that some parts of the very most northern states make for difficult living due to harsh winters, but people live there just fine with some pre-winter planning, as they do in Alaska. Just as, the southern states are affected by hurricanes and tornadoes, the western portion by earthquakes, the northern portion by snow, the eastern portion is affected by snow and hurricanes, etc. But, that’s just the weather and people choose where they will live.

    The danger we should be tuned in to is Bill Gates buying up farmland and BlackRock and Vanguard buying up everything else. They want to control the land.

    The fearmongers, globalists, and control freaks, IMHO, want to control all of us and that’s the real danger in all of us. The Enemy is any leader or organization whose intent is to destroy the freedom of the people.

  100. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 10:02 am

    Historically, when a community finds itsel under siege from an occupying force, local warlords, or hostile neighboring communities, they have tried to limit access by buiilding baracades. These are most effective at natural choke points. Bridges are a prime example. Destroying infrastructure damages everyone who uses them to some degree, so it is subject to cost/benefit analysis. Many rural folks go months or longer without entering a city. When the aggressors can overpower a checkpoint, these things are commonly done, and will be again. If you reach that conclusion you will want to know how.

    There are many resources we have leaned upon to produce our numbers. As you point out, land is not one of the scarce ones. As bogbeagle points out, energy is. People live just fine in all kinds of odd places, as long as food and energy is cheap and available there. That means roads built with oil, by machines running on oil making fertilizer from oil. We eat oil. Because it has become scarce, we have invented new ways to get more oil, by consuming more oil. Most tar sands and even some fracking consume more energy than they produce. China is having an energy crisis.

    People spread out into all the far reaches of earth thousands of years ago. As bogbeagle points out, we know how many people that land can support without oil, because we know how many it *did* support before cheap and abundant oil. I’ve seen no evidence that poeple are any smarter today than in history. Quite the opposite. What we *do* have more of is discretionary man hours, due to oil exploitation, which allowed a great many things to be rediscovered. Most will soon be forgotten, again.

    The Gates and blackrocks are not hoarding farmland because it’s scarce, but because they wish to *make* it scarce. They are rent seeking.

  101. Erin
    Erin January 5, 2022 11:12 am

    Fido, yes about barricades. What I am trying to point out is that at present, it’s our enemy that is dead set on harming the infrastructure. We don’t need to add to it.

    Recently, you responded to my query in a way that got me thinking. Let me share it. You wrote:

    “My gut says it [penalizing the defector] feels like initiating force, and “harming an individual for the benefit of everybody else” always gives me a tummy ache. Also, to placate the “initiating” concern, I need clear certainty that I’m acting in self defense. While that seems abundantly clear to me now through reason, my gut is still catching up. Over the decades, I have developed a very close relationship with my gut. It’s *not* the truth, and can be fatally wrong, but it has saved my ass far more times than it has led me astray.”

    Thank you for helping me see the disconnect. I’ve been reflecting that our culture has a profound hole where understanding ought to be (in this area). When people hear penalizing the defector they hear “hey, let’s abuse the freerider.” It’s… frustrating. And serious trespassers care little about punishments anyway.

    When I was learning to deal with bullies and manipulators, one of the hardest issues for me became the teaching about consequences. Consequences do not mean that you bully the bully. (Besides, you’d lose. They are better at it.) It means that the bully is exposed fully to the consequences of his actions. Sometimes it’s enough to step out of the way. Sometimes, it is necessary to help a consequence be applied. And dramatically, it does not at all have anything to do with abusing one so the group benefits.

    Let me demonstrate. A dad is driving a bunch of unruly kids home every afternoon. He is at his wit’s end. Nagging goes nowhere. They simply refuse to listen. So he decides it’s time for a consequence. He enlists the help of a friend. As the kids reach another fever pitch of nonsense about a mile or two from home, he does not get angry. He stops the car, has them get out, and tells them to walk home. The friend follows at a distance to make sure they stay safe. Boom. 🙂

    That’s a clue how you penalize the defector.

  102. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 12:08 pm

    Children are a special case, we do not treat them as peers, or when we do, they’re not children.
    Most of us are driven to protect children. To protect something is to claim responsibility for it, or said another way, to claim ownership of it.

    We protect our children, even from themselves. We stop them from running into traffic. Adults do *not* tolerate being treated as children. (this is how we know when children are growing up, and how we know most of the public are children, and helps to explain how they project that we must be children too, and need government to take care of us)

    I saw my parenthood as “holding someone in trust”, until they demand self ownership. Trying always to make it clear to them why they needed my oversight (overwatch), and why they needed to stop needing it. That’s actually alot harder than one might think, and your example shows the creativity we are driven to. I don’t like it, because it involves deception, but parenting is hard, if you find something that works with *your* kids, you’ll use it. (my brother used to say that there is only one way to “fail” as a parent, and that is to give up)

    In your example, you are appearing to withdraw support. That’s different from working against. Also, in that example it could backfire. As a kid, I actually prefered to walk. I was young and relatively defenseless so I did not use roads where I could be seen, but the independence made me feel invincable. I was addicted.

    Again, I object *violently* to being treated as a child, and have since I was 14. I cannot therefore casually treat others that way. They have to earn it, and I usually inform them so. (I’m an asshole) This is something like treating them as animals, assuming you love animals. When you do this, they stop being your peers. (some might call that subhuman) If you don’t want to be treated as a child, and you don’t want to be a hypocrite, you need to be really careful here.

  103. SWTWC
    SWTWC January 5, 2022 12:11 pm

    Agree with Fido. I have heard for many years that the most valuable ‘investment’ is in arable land. I do believe that the psychotics who purport to be our ‘leaders’ will weaponize food. Being able to grow one’s own is an obvious benefit.

    The elites will be ensconced in their bunkers, or their Patagonian/New Zealand palaces, waiting out the anarchy unleashed when the U.S. entirely unravels. The inner cities will tank first, the hordes then spreading out into poorly-defended suburbia; the survivors of that will head for the hills/farms, believing that there will be easy pickings just ahead.

    ‘Just ahead’ lies their deaths. Farmers & cowboys don’t tolerate lawless land-takers, and Fargo, etc. has lots of wood chippers, too.

    Here’s Matt Bracken’s take on how it may all go down:

  104. Erin
    Erin January 5, 2022 12:28 pm

    Fido: sheesh man. All it was was an illustration, as clear as I knew how to make it. It’s not hard to find adult examples.
    Suit yourself.

  105. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 12:39 pm

    I certainly meant no disrepect, or even disagreement. I’m sorry if I spoke poorly.

    I think you are right: most of these folks harming us are best seen as children, and should be properly trained by manipulating incentives. Those who cannot be so trained, must be mechanically deprived of their ability to harm. I’m open to argument to the contrary, but see none at present.

    I have personal daemons to address here, as I will lose my self respect when I see myself as a hypocrite, and without my self respect, I am a liability to everything, including myself. I may be guilty of projecting my personal limitations on others, and if so I sincerely apologize.

  106. Just Me
    Just Me January 5, 2022 1:57 pm

    For those of you worried about Gates & others buying all the farmland to weaponize it: When the feces hits to oscillating device, they will be hunkered down in their New Zeeland bunkers not protecting the farmland. It will then either become community property, or go to the strongest local warlord, depending upon location and local temperament/cohesion.

    When everything is going to hell, and no one is paying the security guys (or they are being taken out by the locals) then possession becomes 9/10 of the law. Hungry people will use whatever arable land there is to grow food. If you have some and demand that it lie fallow, they will use you as fertilizer!

  107. Bill T.
    Bill T. January 5, 2022 3:31 pm

    You point out a very good point. All of the big money people have bolt holes to go to and a fleet of jets with the ability to got there. Not that I think the locals will tolerate them for long is it really gets to that.

  108. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 6:36 pm

    I keep thinking about that supply chain issue. It seems like it might be the most imminent thing to plan for. We’re already seeing roaming and sporatic shortages. All sorts of specific weak points in the Just In Time model are being targeted, particularly truck drivers. Vax requirements, local requirements to be unarmed while smash and grabs go unrestrained, and now an example has been made with a very lengthy sentence for the driver of a runaway.

    It looks like they want, and will get widespread shortages, especially of food. There are shortages of fertilizer, and the resources to make it. Rumors of farmers being forced to abandon whole crops. And two years running of poor crops due to odd weather.

    It really looks like widespread famine could be very near. That would cause widespread outcry for government intervention, at least within the cities. Historically in the US, that has led to rationing, and the vilification of “hoarders”. Other places have a history of the full monopoly of government run food distribution centers.

    In this scenario anyone who is not taking his ration becomes highly suspect. Now consider unacceptable compliance is required to get “your” ration. Anyone not taking their ration and not clearly starving to death is a presumed criminal. I presume they’ll use census data, as well as anything else they can find to map out who should be starving, and mount humanitarian “welfare checks” on these people, rescuing them to the FEMA camps, or arresting them for hoarding, if they’re not starving. (confiscating guns either way)

    Any thoughts on why this might *not* happen? Or how to plan for it now, if you think it will?

    Until they can figure out how to round up all the guns, there are severe limits to what they can do, but this strikes me as something they could try.

  109. Just Me
    Just Me January 5, 2022 8:05 pm

    So, why would I NOT take my rations – esp. if they are a govt. handout – even if I have my own food? That would just extend my supply, and also be barter goods for someone who may want more than the govt. is handing out.

    When the govt. is giving handouts, let me in line! It’s one way to get a small return on all the taxes they stole from me!

  110. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 8:57 pm

    Suppose you must be vaccinated, or maybe just chipped. Something they think *everyone* would choose to do over starvation. (chipped is “reversable”) Pretend not mandatory, but actually mandatory because, starvation. Even if you claim you are choosing to starve (no hoarding here), they could call that suicide and warrant an intervention.

    Obviously, at some point the whole thing goes kinetic, but what if they move slowly, with selective enforcement, and try to ferret out the most capable of us one at a time before going full totalitarian? They seem to like slow escalation, a quick pull back, then more escalation, trying to make as much progress as possible without “ringing the bell”.

    Everyone draws their own line, so the most resistant pop off first, one at a time without provoking a unified response from the less resistant, who themselves will pop off when they finally see the full totalitarian.

    If they can take the strongest of us out one at a time *before* the “night of the broken glass”, especially if the less resistant were mostly scared into disarming, I think that would look attractive to them.

  111. Fido
    Fido January 5, 2022 9:16 pm

    Solzhenitzn points out that the time to fight is while you still *can*, not after you’re handcuffed in a boxcar. But when exactly was your last moment of possible resistance? Handcuffs? Or was it opening the door when they knocked? Or when they pulled you over for a burned out tail light? If you don’t hear the bell ring *before* that last moment, then you *are* Solzhenitzn, if you hear it before everyone else, you go out in a blaze of glory. The brave penquin dilemma.

  112. Jeff2
    Jeff2 January 6, 2022 4:13 am

    “I think you are right: most of these folks harming us are best seen as children, and should be properly trained by manipulating incentives. Those who cannot be so trained, must be mechanically deprived of their ability to harm. I’m open to argument to the contrary, but see none at present.”

    I don’t see how this is different than how TPTB perceive me. I don’t wnat to become them…

  113. James
    James January 6, 2022 8:14 am

    Late to the party, but here goes. Denial of food is a clear act of war, so I think the proper conduct becomes that of war. Assassination of the enemy command structure seems the obvious thing to do: those who give the orders / set the policies, starting at the highest accessible level and working down the chain of command. I don’t think you’d ever get down as far as the supermarket-manager level, as it would quickly become clear that implementing a starve-the-unclean system is bad for one’s health. Governors, mayors, county commissioners, city councilmen, cops, the National Guard, “business” people — same principle applies. Start at the top and work down. I really don’t think you’d ever end up pruning the lower branches, as those folks would quickly have changed their minds about their “jobs.”

  114. Just Waiting
    Just Waiting January 6, 2022 9:50 am

    Took 1 last visit to Aesop’s. His bellicose rantings all scream ” I’m an agent provocateur”, but his apparently deaf and blind sycophants just eat it up.

  115. Granny
    Granny January 6, 2022 10:58 am

    It’s an old trick – a honeypot. Every single computer system that visits his website has an IP address and those visits are recorded in the server logfiles. So, whether he isn’t or is, is not the point. The point is that our Internet wanderings are easily discovered. And if that becomes a crime, I plan to turn off the Internet. Now, I can use a VPN easily and I probably should… LOL… but #whatever. I’m so over being afraid of these people. I’m going to live free, or die. And that’s it.

  116. Simon Templar
    Simon Templar January 6, 2022 11:59 am

    VPN only hides you from your Wi-Fi access provider and / or ISP. Everyone else can still see everything you do, including anyone who monitors the honeypot. Tor is better, but slower, and sometimes blocked.

  117. Fido
    Fido January 6, 2022 1:01 pm

    @Jeff2 – “I don’t want to become them…”

    “When someone tries to kill you, you try to kill ’em right back.” – Serenity

    As I see it, the difference is the difference between offense and defense.
    This difference is *everything*!

    But in any given moment, that difference is only in your head, and that of your opponent, so there *is* danger here.

    Offense must vanquish, defense need only survive. Imagine we’re playing a game of “rock, paper, scissors”, but because I don’t want to play, you are offense, and you must move *first*…..

    One of the first things I discovered in martial arts is the massive advantage that defense is. You wait for your opponent to commit himself to an action (ususally through inertia), and then choose the winning response. Once I learn how much easier it is to kill than to just harm, and how easy it is to kill unintentionally when I only meant to thwart, I lost interest in fighting and concentrated my studies on running away, and other avoidance.

    The funniest “battles” I’ve seen were between two people who actually knew how to fight, and would therefore never do so on offense, but both thought they were on defense. They dance and posture and bait, but each is waiting for the other to move first, which never happens.

    The nastiest I’ve seen were between two who knew how, but each believed they were defending third parties, and therefore *had* to respond.

    Travelling alone, I learned to talk in a funny manor that though often hard to understand, is meant to be more difficult to misunderstand. The ugliest fights were always misunderstandings, because someone just wanting to fight you is usually evidence that he’s no good at it, and doesn’t understand what could happen.

    Defense is EVERYTHING. But it’s possible to get it wrong, so your concern is valid.

    @Granny – “live free, or die.”

    Damn straight.

    I run away, it’s what I do. I’m good at it. but…
    I’m about as “away” as away gets. My back’s against the wall. I got nowhere left to run to. Living in fear is not sustainable. I’m old, and got no f*cks left to give.

    I’ll keep control of what’s mine, and that goes double for my network facing machines. I’ve been working with computers since the very early 80s. I understand them from transistor theory to the human interface. (my understanding becomes grossly incomplete at the human) Actually retaining control of a network facing machine is not something I could teach to just anybody, that takes a long time, and modern machines have management engines that are nearly impossible to wrest control of from the CPU manufacturer.

    At the end of the day, f*ck ’em. Live Free or Die. And I barely care which anymore. I’ll take what comes.

    @Simon Templar
    Even Tor is somewhat compromised now with someone running a massive percentage of exit, and especially entrance nodes. Even SSH is usually packaged with substandard modulii, and questionable algorithms. Security is *always* a cat and mouse game, and can quickly become a full time job.

  118. Just Me
    Just Me January 6, 2022 1:20 pm

    No Simon.

    A VPN works by directing all your traffic to a central point, which then sends the request out to the website. The info goes back to the VPN provider, who then sends it back to you (encrypted, so no one along the way can snoop).

    As long as your VPN provider doesn’t log your activity (some do) no one has a record of where you have been,

  119. Fido
    Fido January 6, 2022 1:26 pm

    @Just Me

    I think he knows that. But of course the VPN provider knows your ISP given IP, and can see all your unencrpyted traffic. Why should you trust a VPN provider more than your ISP? Yes there can be reasons why. Your ISP might be a known problem, and maybe even a monopoly. I think he meant that it doesn’t actually solve the problem, it just moves it to a different point of trust. But maybe that’s good enough?

    It *does* hide your ISP given IP from the sites you visit, and that has value. But it hides little from NSA data centers.

  120. Fido
    Fido January 7, 2022 9:54 am

    Note to self: Mentioning NSA data centers can end a comment thread.

  121. Claire
    Claire January 7, 2022 12:35 pm

    Well, if this thread’s going to die, it’s probably going to go out as the longest comment thread in the history of this blog — and that’s even after I had to trash an unusual number of troll posts.

    But LOL, I don’t think it will be you or the NSA that’s responsible if the thread ceases to grow.

  122. Just Me
    Just Me January 7, 2022 8:58 pm

    “But LOL, I don’t think it will be you or the NSA that’s responsible if the thread ceases to grow.”

    No, I think that too many people are afraid to say what they would do if this happened, while many others have no clue.

    I’m not afraid to say I won’t let anyone starve me and mine to death without doing everything in my power to feed them and make the troublemakers sorry they tried their shenanigans.

  123. Granny
    Granny January 8, 2022 7:08 am

    @freedomistas who have networking experience… I have advanced degrees in Computer Science and computer/network security certifications as long as your longest leg. LOL. And I could care less about obfuscation at this point. I’m just sick to death of TPTB. I therefore flaunt my freedom and they can have at it. I’m also a praying woman, and I’ve found, over the years, that the Almighty’s power is far superior to man’s. Knowledge is just a group of facts and I have little power over the world’s churning. My mind is in a peaceful place knowing that. Which, doesn’t make me a wimp either!! I will fight with everything in me, in every way I can, to be free and preserve freedom for my grandchildren, etc.

  124. Comrade X
    Comrade X January 8, 2022 8:50 am

    When the choice is dying, starving on your knees or standing and fighting for liberty, I’ll go with the standing, at least if there is a Valhalla you might have a chance of ending up there, hanging with the valkyries and drinking mead for eternity, don’t ya know?

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