Maybe this link is a good lead in to a question I have had for some time. The article briefly mentions the Venus Project. I was wondering what the good Freedomistas think of The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project.
I grew up an early fan of Ayn Rand, after getting The Fountainhead as required reading in HS English (yes believe it or not this was in public school). I went on to read EVERYTHING by her by college and became a die hard Capitalist. I still believe in Capitalism, but seeing the way to government/political machine has perverted the system, lately I see myself wanting more of a Zeitgeist type or resource based system.
I always felt that the system could be fought for,changed from within, and returned to something sustainable. Lately, I do not think here is any possibility of this. Just curious the thought from folks here.
J. BaumannAugust 27, 2010 7:30 pm
I’ve come to the conclusion that there are now two types of Capitalism. The first is Pure Capitalism which is the kind you and I know and prefer, and then there is what I call ConCapitalism which is an amalgam of Congressional supported Capitalism for Corporations. The Capitalism we have now is a Con that is run by the Corporations.
WinstonAugust 27, 2010 10:30 pm
I’m suprised this one didn’t start a giant wave of comments, it’s literally the best advice on preparedness I’ve heard.
The gulch lifestyle is an ideal…but that’s not going to happen for me anytime soon, and realisticaly just being well armed, having knowledge and experience with “the simple life” (I.e. farming, basic handywork, turning animals into food) and having reasonable amounts of extra food, water and a bug out bag puts one way ahead of the vast majority.
If I may rant for a moment…you know what I consider preparedness that you almost never see on survivalist websites? Basic f****g physical fitness. For something so important its somewhat rare to even see ‘get in shape’ MENTIONED on most people’s “List of how to get started with preparedness” lists, even more rare that someone will actually take the time to devote the better part of a post to it. Which is a shame, because unlike those buckets of grains and those cans of ammo that sit waiting for a disaster, being strong and healthy benefits you in the here and now.
If you don’t have a physical disability that keeps you from working out, then there’s no excuse for not doing it. Look at convicts…most of them manage to keep themselves fighting-fit with little or no equipment and an improper diet. If you are part of a preparedness blog or forum then that probably means that you’re not a prisoner…If you can afford your own internet connection then I’m guessing you can afford decent food and a basic set of weights (which can be found all the time on craigslist for nearly nothing)…and an hour a day towards fitness will only help take what’s coming.
PatAugust 28, 2010 12:24 am
G.W.F. said, “I always felt that the system could be fought for, changed from within, and returned to something sustainable. Lately, I do not think here is any possibility of this.”
I agree generally with this sentiment. Fascism is too far down the road, and gov-bastards (at all levels) won’t — don’t want to — turn it around. Nor do I believe the majority of people (aka “citizens”) fully understand what is happening, or how to veer from this course.
But it is individuals who can/will make this country “sustainable” – economically and morally. While working together is necessary for a country to come together, action that produces long-range sustainability comes from individual initiative, inventiveness, and profitability — and moral stick-to-it-tiveness.
I don’t think The Venus Project, or its like, is the answer – not because it wouldn’t work (it probably would, in various projects around the country), but because I suspect “too many cooks spoil the broth” – and one will quickly rise to head chef. But which cook… which individual project, would take priority? And who would pay for them all?
I don’t know where The Venus Project will end up, but when I hear of attempting to jump-start a society, I get very nervous. America became great as a country when it had no formal direction, while individuals maintained their moral standards in the face of common hardships. It lost its greatness when leadership gained momentum and strength. I fear The Venus Project would, if successful, develop competing leaders (in their respective fields of endeavor) very quickly — and this would bring us back to “politics as usual.”
My 2 cents…
~~~~~
Re On Preparedness, I’m also surprised that no one spoke up, Winston. I thought it was the most common-sensical statement I’ve heard on the subject, and probably the only way the individual can “be prepared” and still live peaceably — and fairly normally — with his neighbor in abnormal times.
G.W.F.August 28, 2010 6:53 am
Initially when I saw the Venus Project, the leadership aspect was exactly what I thought. I was actually more interested in Jacque Fresco (the guy has a certain genius that cannot be ignored even if you think TVP is crazy) so I have read a lot more. He actually has the same concerns about leadership. His solution is to have all decision making and policy made without people involved. That sounds nuts on the surface, I admit. His basic argument is that many of the decisions currently made are done by science and computers without human input. Years ago you would look out the window of your Model-T and say “gee I guess I am trucking along at 20 MPH”. That was up to the individual and usually way off. The speedometer now makes that determination for us. We depend on devices everyday to make decisions for us (speedometer not the best example, but there are thousands). In the resource-based economy you begin with the resources available, and use computer models to determine what takes place. If you go through the logic he put forward it basically get around the need for law makers. In a society without a monetary system you basically get rid of most crime. It sounds a bit like SkyNet, which makes it a hard sell. I can not see realistically happening, but it is the most original thought I have seen as to how to reinvent society. I feel as long as people are involved you will always have corruption and greed, so maybe that is just how it would have to be in order to work.
PatAugust 28, 2010 8:08 am
G.W.F: That’s interesting: thanks for the info. I’ll read more on it, but at the moment am in the throes of packing to move, so it’ll be a week or more before I can get to it.
One thing that I question is, “His basic argument is that many of the decisions currently made are done by science and computers without human input.” That strikes me two ways:
1) It’s like a spelling-checker; when you’re trying to say “there”, the computer might read “their” — and a mistake is made.
2) Decisions can be “made by computers” but the input was made by men prior to when the computer got it — and that input could be wrong… or biased.
Maybe this link is a good lead in to a question I have had for some time. The article briefly mentions the Venus Project. I was wondering what the good Freedomistas think of The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project.
I grew up an early fan of Ayn Rand, after getting The Fountainhead as required reading in HS English (yes believe it or not this was in public school). I went on to read EVERYTHING by her by college and became a die hard Capitalist. I still believe in Capitalism, but seeing the way to government/political machine has perverted the system, lately I see myself wanting more of a Zeitgeist type or resource based system.
I always felt that the system could be fought for,changed from within, and returned to something sustainable. Lately, I do not think here is any possibility of this. Just curious the thought from folks here.
I’ve come to the conclusion that there are now two types of Capitalism. The first is Pure Capitalism which is the kind you and I know and prefer, and then there is what I call ConCapitalism which is an amalgam of Congressional supported Capitalism for Corporations. The Capitalism we have now is a Con that is run by the Corporations.
I’m suprised this one didn’t start a giant wave of comments, it’s literally the best advice on preparedness I’ve heard.
The gulch lifestyle is an ideal…but that’s not going to happen for me anytime soon, and realisticaly just being well armed, having knowledge and experience with “the simple life” (I.e. farming, basic handywork, turning animals into food) and having reasonable amounts of extra food, water and a bug out bag puts one way ahead of the vast majority.
If I may rant for a moment…you know what I consider preparedness that you almost never see on survivalist websites? Basic f****g physical fitness. For something so important its somewhat rare to even see ‘get in shape’ MENTIONED on most people’s “List of how to get started with preparedness” lists, even more rare that someone will actually take the time to devote the better part of a post to it. Which is a shame, because unlike those buckets of grains and those cans of ammo that sit waiting for a disaster, being strong and healthy benefits you in the here and now.
If you don’t have a physical disability that keeps you from working out, then there’s no excuse for not doing it. Look at convicts…most of them manage to keep themselves fighting-fit with little or no equipment and an improper diet. If you are part of a preparedness blog or forum then that probably means that you’re not a prisoner…If you can afford your own internet connection then I’m guessing you can afford decent food and a basic set of weights (which can be found all the time on craigslist for nearly nothing)…and an hour a day towards fitness will only help take what’s coming.
G.W.F. said, “I always felt that the system could be fought for, changed from within, and returned to something sustainable. Lately, I do not think here is any possibility of this.”
I agree generally with this sentiment. Fascism is too far down the road, and gov-bastards (at all levels) won’t — don’t want to — turn it around. Nor do I believe the majority of people (aka “citizens”) fully understand what is happening, or how to veer from this course.
But it is individuals who can/will make this country “sustainable” – economically and morally. While working together is necessary for a country to come together, action that produces long-range sustainability comes from individual initiative, inventiveness, and profitability — and moral stick-to-it-tiveness.
I don’t think The Venus Project, or its like, is the answer – not because it wouldn’t work (it probably would, in various projects around the country), but because I suspect “too many cooks spoil the broth” – and one will quickly rise to head chef. But which cook… which individual project, would take priority? And who would pay for them all?
I don’t know where The Venus Project will end up, but when I hear of attempting to jump-start a society, I get very nervous. America became great as a country when it had no formal direction, while individuals maintained their moral standards in the face of common hardships. It lost its greatness when leadership gained momentum and strength. I fear The Venus Project would, if successful, develop competing leaders (in their respective fields of endeavor) very quickly — and this would bring us back to “politics as usual.”
My 2 cents…
~~~~~
Re On Preparedness, I’m also surprised that no one spoke up, Winston. I thought it was the most common-sensical statement I’ve heard on the subject, and probably the only way the individual can “be prepared” and still live peaceably — and fairly normally — with his neighbor in abnormal times.
Initially when I saw the Venus Project, the leadership aspect was exactly what I thought. I was actually more interested in Jacque Fresco (the guy has a certain genius that cannot be ignored even if you think TVP is crazy) so I have read a lot more. He actually has the same concerns about leadership. His solution is to have all decision making and policy made without people involved. That sounds nuts on the surface, I admit. His basic argument is that many of the decisions currently made are done by science and computers without human input. Years ago you would look out the window of your Model-T and say “gee I guess I am trucking along at 20 MPH”. That was up to the individual and usually way off. The speedometer now makes that determination for us. We depend on devices everyday to make decisions for us (speedometer not the best example, but there are thousands). In the resource-based economy you begin with the resources available, and use computer models to determine what takes place. If you go through the logic he put forward it basically get around the need for law makers. In a society without a monetary system you basically get rid of most crime. It sounds a bit like SkyNet, which makes it a hard sell. I can not see realistically happening, but it is the most original thought I have seen as to how to reinvent society. I feel as long as people are involved you will always have corruption and greed, so maybe that is just how it would have to be in order to work.
G.W.F: That’s interesting: thanks for the info. I’ll read more on it, but at the moment am in the throes of packing to move, so it’ll be a week or more before I can get to it.
One thing that I question is, “His basic argument is that many of the decisions currently made are done by science and computers without human input.” That strikes me two ways:
1) It’s like a spelling-checker; when you’re trying to say “there”, the computer might read “their” — and a mistake is made.
2) Decisions can be “made by computers” but the input was made by men prior to when the computer got it — and that input could be wrong… or biased.
Anyway, I will follow up on this ASAP.