So what happens now? A politician got a bullet in the brain. A federal judge got dead. A wonderful little girl had her future blown away. Innocents dead and wounded all over the place. And as usual, bystanders did what needed doing.
And never mind that the shooter was a well known loon with a long history of weird behavior. Even those elitists who have enough grace to admit that the young jerk’s politics were a devil’s brew of left, right, and total nonsense are sure the real cause is uncivil “right-wing” rhetoric.. Even the local sheriff, making the first public announcements was confident that uncivil rhetoric drove the killer.
And guns, of course. It’s always going to be about the gun, in some way or another. But the big bugaboo since 2009’s angry town hall Obamacare meetings has been our supposed incivility toward our masters.
And none of these people who are blaming these murders on uncivil political rhetoric (without a shred of evidence — and even if evidence existed, who can be held responsible for how words get processed in the brain of a crazy person?) … none of these people are asking if maybe there are damnfine reasons to be uncivil. If, just maybe, the current political incivility isn’t a cause of anything, but is a result. A result of freedom being ripped away by “representatives” who represent none of us and listen to nothing any of us have to say?
Gabrielle Giffords might be a good person when she’s not in Congress. I don’t know. She’s pro-gun*, hard-working, and even within the freedomista circle there are people who like and respect her. She didn’t deserve a bullet in the head, even if she may deserve a trial for crimes against the rights of free people.
But how come the elitists, from The New Yorker to the Washington and Huffington Posts never think that we, the unwashed, deserve the civility of being considered worthy of managing our own lives? Why are we not accorded the civility supposedly guaranteed to us by the poor old battered BoR? The civility of being left alone? The civility of living under a few understandable, inviolable precepts?
So I have two questions for you: Are there reasons to be civil to politicians when they’re so fundamentally uncivil to us and our liberties? (ADDED: And by this I don’t mean “should we shoot the bastards?” but only “is there any reason to be polite to them?”) And what do you think happens now? What kind of new laws, what kind of crackdowns?
That’s one of the many hells of a tragedy like this. You can’t even properly mourn the innocents. Because you know the guiltiest of the guilty will find the most cruel and cynical ways to use all this death and destruction to their own advantage — and it goes without saying, to our disadvantage.
* Or maybe not so pro-gun; see comments section.
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To counteract some of the outrage and gloom, Jim B. dropped this excellent true story into a recent comment section. Great example of freedom — and the e-world — springing into action for one if its own.
Yep. The Mass Murder Fan Club (Brady’s, et al.) won’t even wait til the echoes have died before they start grasping for new ways to make certain this will happen again. And again. A little civility from those who want to Rule and subjugate us would go a LONG ways toward defusing the situation- at least among those who are just upset about which crop of tyrants is trying to rule and subjugate us right now. But they are too stupid and/or evil to even realize this. It doesn’t fit in their plan. So the suicidal blueprints will keep being followed at all costs. It would be interesting to watch if I could exist outside time and space, and if I had no empathy towards those who suffer the inevitable abuses.
this happened about 2 miles up the street from me claire,was surprised…don’t care for the congresswoman personally, agree a bullet in the head to be somewhat severe…orange jumpsuit and breaking rocks in nevada after the trial maybe more appropriate…but be advised folks-schumer and pals are creamin their panties, chompin at the bit,here they come again people,and I for one have had it with these idiots!…
and your right about the guiltiest of the guilty claire…these people serve the beast,no mistake about it…folks better wake up realize what were up against…the hour is getting late…
“Are there reasons to be civil to politicians when they’re so fundamentally uncivil to us and our liberties?”
Yes. Because the committing of evil by those I consider my enemies does NOT justify the committing of evil by my [i]self[/i]. No amount of stretching the word ‘aggression’ and the imaginary boundaries of ‘rights’ and the concept of self-defense can justify it. I denounce politicians, refuse to obey them, and make no secret of either of those facts. But — unless they come at me or mine armed and with intent to harm — they are perfectly safe from me.
Which brings me to the other reason to be civil: sheer, bloody minded practicality. Attacking politicians is less intelligent than kicking a rabid dog. After all, you might manage to out-run and escape the dog. It won’t send armies of armed thugs after you and your family.
” And what do you think happens now? What kind of new laws, what kind of crackdowns?”
The same old same old: another polish and precision tune-up for the machinery of the state. Nothing drastic, nothing sudden: the frogs will remain comfortable. 😉
First of all, I don’t think this shooter had a sane point to make, he was just a nutjob……yeah, I saw all the You Tube and MySpace pages he had, and it was more bizarre than directional…..
I learned after that other one (the older guy who wrote the 2-3 page document that made a ton of sense about the rights he’s lost, before he “lost it”, & his name escapes me at the moment unfortunately) that the people who need to “listen up” aren’t going to care what the reason/excuse/purpose is for the flipping out…..because they just don’t care what the people really think, it’s all about themselves-the power junkies…..
I haven’t gone past the “what’s it gonna take” thoughts to get any farther on what to think about this massacre…..I’m still on WIGT to get people to realize that when out in public you can’t predict what’s next to you; WIGT for people to believe that there’s unrest simmering; WIGT to get someone who’s obviously in mental trouble some help before something like this happens; WIGT to get politicians to think about how many mistakes they’re making, etc etc etc….and I wonder WIGT to get any of this to stop, if it ever will…
I agree with George Potter. Unless attacked, we shouldn’t “do unto others because we don’t like them.” This was going through my head as I read the articles about this incident. Politicians are politicians — and living freedom is about how to minimize their influence in our lives.
(I’ve kissed off politicians, but the people who really upset me are the “Yes Men” — the media, celebrities with causes, those who’re “just doing their job”, and other idiots who don’t and won’t think for themselves beyond the obvious, or beyond what they’ve been taught all their lives.)
There WILL be more laws passed, the use of and need for guns WILL be attacked viciously in Congress and in print — but this shooting just serves as an excuse to rant against them sooner.
The gun control goons are already out in full force… Carolyn McCarthy is working over time to puts her agenda on everyone. Representative Carolyn McCarthy responded to the shooting incident in Tucson, Sunday, by committing to prepare a gun law reform as soon as Monday.
I have to mull all this over for a bit. It’s a tragedy that a nut job went on a rampage and innocent people got killed however I like the fact that politicians are reminded that they are mortal and people are capable of retaliation other then angry letters and phone calls (that they to the most part ignore). At the end of the day it comes down to the fact that ordinary people had to step up and take this guy down. If there was some one there with a concealed carry license I bet this would have been ended a lot sooner with less loss of life.
Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html
Read that Politico article carefully. Carolyn “Shoulder Thingy*” McCarthy, D(umbass)-NY, is planning to ban high-capacity AMMUNITION.
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* This is the idiot who tried to ban barrel shrouds. When asked if she even knew what a barrel shroud is, and what it does to make an evil black gun even eviller, she explained that it’s “the shoulder thingy that goes up”.
George Potter — When I was talking about being uncivil to them, I wasn’t talking about being violent to them — just giving them no respect and not treating them with the kid gloves they seem to desire.
I agree that politicians should be safe from all good people — because good people will ultimately have absolutely nothing to do with them and simply ignore them and all their posturings.
I hope everybody here realizes that I don’t condone or advocate aggressive violence.
Carl-Bear Bussjaeger — Yep.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html
and yep.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10collins.html
and yep.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl3/atf-plans-gun-registration-in-border-states.html
We’ll be lucky if the return of the Ugly Gun Ban is the worst we get. I don’t think it’ll stop there.
I’m still having a hard time figuring out what “high-capacity ammunition” is …
I prefer to get rid of politicians the old fashioned way, through elections, indictments, or resignation.
That the shooter was a nutjob goes without saying. If he hadn’t been a nut and had a better thought out plan the casualty list would of been higher.
It makes me wonder why there wasn’t law enforcement of any kind present? Not a single sherriffs deputy or police officer, on duty or off etc. You would expect it at least out of courtesy and to handle traffic or crowd control issues if it comes up. At a minimum an officer would of been a tacit reminder to people to stay in line and keep their thoughts to themselves.
As far as usin and “evil” gun, it could of been worse. Instead of a handgun it could of been a homicide vest, car bomb etc that would of killed and maimed many, many more.
As usual, Larken Rose does a damned fine job of reading my mind: http://bit.ly/eRhlNH
The wonderful Jack Shafer on the idiots who blame “rhetoric” for a lunatic’s crimes:
http://www.slate.com/id/2280616/pagenum/all/#p2
Claire: “I’m still having a hard time figuring out what “high-capacity ammunition” is …”
‘Bout all I can think of would be shotshells. Maybe Loughner was using snakeshot rounds. Of course, They wouldn’t reliably cycle the action my Glock 19 (which, despite the uninformed nuttery of Helmke, I did buy and carry for defense).
But more likely, McCarthy is just still a nattering nitwit.
I just wish there had been an Arizonian there carrying concealed that would have ended the attack much faster… And then see how the mass media would have spun it.
I imagine it was mainly Democrat supporters at the event so none of us evil gun toters where there to help.
Correction according to MamaLiberty at The Mental Militia forums. Giffords is not in favor of our self-defense rights:
https://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=27866.msg349122#msg349122
She may just be another of those who think firearms are okay for themselves but not for we the unwashed.
Crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons-that’s why they call’em crazy. This guy is a certified wack job, no doubt. If I had to guess, I suspect a bunch of what I call “comfort laws” against guns(and maybe anything else deemed remotely dangerous) to “protect” us or “prevent this from happening again” will be passed quickly,even though such laws to absolutely nothing to that end. If this nutbar had used,say a bomb made from a 20-lb. propane tank,would they want to outlaw gas grills? I agree with Matt-the best way to deal with politicians you want out is through elections,indictments,or resignation.
There is always a good reason to be polite and civil — it keeps one up out of the muck where the politicians live.
There are also sometimes good reasons to shoot politicians, although not innocent bystanders.
I won’t condone shooting congress critters.. But I won’t be polite to them either. “Worthless parasite” is a kind way to address most of them. I DO think gun grabbers should be hanged for treason, however.
But I wanted to comment on Claire’s statement that bystanders did what needed doing. Well, Tackling the shooter while he was reloading was certainly brave and heroic. But it would have been much more prudent to be prepared to shoot the shooter. Especially in Arizona, where there are few legal barriers to doing so.
I’m kinda embarrassed…the whole nation has seen our “dupe” of a “sherrif”…
bumperwack — Don’t worry; nobody blames you for your dupe of a sheriff. 😉 But OMG, he sure does come across as a useful idiot — not to mention an irresponsible law officer.
Here are some questions I’d like to propose:
With all of the cell phones taking pictures of everything under the sun… how come there are not hundreds of them washing around the internet?
How come there were no TV or media cameras present and recording?
Where in the world were all the Arizona armed citizens? Someone should have taken that nut out after the first shot… unless they were prevented from being present somehow.
Not a single cop, off duty sheriff’s deputy…. nobody?
I couldn’t find it, but someone said her personal web page/blog had an announcement of the tragedy up almost before the ambulance got there. Huh?
And the blogs/pages/posts of this supposed shooter/loser have pretty much all vanished already – even from Free Republic! He’s a non-person after less than 24 hours? Huh?
Lots more to this than meets the eye, me thinks.
[Edited somewhat from my post at UATK]
Bill St. Clair — I agree that the lack of armed Arizona citizens seems surprising. OTOH, the thing that needed to be done was to stop the shooter — and unarmed bystanders did that.
Yeah, they did it too late to prevent a tragedy, but there’s no certainty that an armed person could have done the job more quickly.
MamaLiberty — Good questions. I hate to be conspiratorial. But it does always seem as if these shootings turn out almost too conveniently for the gun banners and other statists.
this fools been sheriff here forever seems…he is a open border type…
What a sad state we find ourselves in. Tragic for everybody, us included. We’ll all lose in the end. I wonder when the push to pornograph & molest the populace even further will begin. It can’t be far behind.
Sorry about that, Claire. I didn’t mean to imply that YOU were asking about violent means, I was just taking an overly broad view of the word ‘civil’. As to polite? Nope. I see no reason to be polite to them or to interact in any way with them, other than for the second reason I noted: sheer pragmatism.
“The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel” — Good WSJ editorial by Glenn Harlan Reynolds.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Speaking of “conspiratorial” (?)… “Spooky! Jared Lee Loughner Is on Rep. Gifford’s YouTube Channel“
Claire, it been at least 15 years since you penned “It’s too late to change the system, and too soon to shoot the bastards!” Well after 15 years of freedom erosion at the hands of politicians, maybe you statement is no longer true ……
“Are there reasons to be civil to politicians…”
Civility is a sign of conformity.
I’ve been known to yell at my employees. The politicians are our “employees”, right?
“And by this I don’t mean “should we shoot the bastards?” but only “is there any reason to be polite to them?””
Acts of rudeness usually reflect more on the person committing them than they do on the person or people on whom they are inflicted.
I believe it is quite possible to disagree with someone, despise their actions, and even hate the person completely, while still remaining polite. But then, I’m weird.
PS: By “polite” I don’t mean kowtowing or treating someone with kid gloves. I mainly just mean “not rude”.
My guess is that since it was a liberal event there were no people who carried or had guns. There was no police presence because, again, it was a liberal event and therefore sparsely attended; No expectation of subsidiary problems such as traffic control, etc.
And of course liberals know that there is no (physical) threat from conservatives so they had additional reason to lack any kind of protective presence. They felt perfectly safe exercising their rights.
They simply failed to take into account one insane individual. They feel immune because they are so self-righteously self-satisfied with their own beliefs and actions. Who would ever want to hurt any of them because they are so, so good? They were not concerned with an insane individual who happened to be one of their own.
But yes. I believe we should always be polite. Regardless of what action we are forced to take. Do it politely.
I call it courtesy…you can be courteous…even when you have to drop someone…
Noah Vaile: Best comment in the thread. *tips hat*
As Dalton said in Road House:
Dalton: All you have to do is follow three simple rules. One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it’s absolutely necessary. And three, be nice.
This doesn’t answer the question that was asked, but it does help bring a balance to the rhetoric being spouted everywhere.
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10076/
“The attack on gun culture is built on a deep suspicion of the motivations of ordinary citizens expressing political opinions. In fact, it is not so much about the Second Amendment as the First, which reads: ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.’”