Yesterday I wrote about activist-turned-drug-war-informant Stacy Litz.
Stacy commented on that post to say she knew her acts were heinous (her word), but that I was being unfair to her by making accusations, slanting my account, and using stale information.
At the time I blogged, I hadn’t been able to find any statements from Stacy herself. I knew they existed, but I kept getting dead links.
This morning I found two examples of Stacy talking about her experiences as an informant (and afterward). So here’s Stacy on Stacy, without any filtering from me:
“I Am a Victim of the American Drug War.” (A blog, originally intended to be anonymous.)
Interview with Stacy about her time as an informant. (Audio. Requires login. I couldn’t listen, so I don’t know what it says. Reddit comments are interesting, and not necessarily SFW.)
The first thing I read about it was from Thomas Knapp’s blog, and he linked to this note on facebook where Stacy details what happened.
Probably if you aren’t on facebook you wouldn’t be able to read it, but I’m not sure about that.
Thanks, Kent. Yep — I can’t see the Facebook content at all, but that link will be useful for a lot of people. I’ve had a lot of trouble with broken links, login-only links, 404s, and 503s while trying to reach content by Stacy. So far the best I’ve found is her “I Am a Victim of the American Drug War” blog — which is somewhat surreal. But then, isn’t this whole situation?
Unable to see “I Am a Victim of the American Drug War.” because I will not allow google access to my machine. This is strange because I can load every other “blogspot” blog. No point in trying to listen to the audio… can’t hear those things. 🙁
Having to enable my JavaScript to view the blog doesn’t incline me towards an understanding attitude…
🙂
That said – while I may be sympathetic about the situation she found herself in – I find very little in her recounting that inspires any sympathy for her actions. If a person has been involved in activism in opposition to the Wo(s)D for any length of time they should know exactly what the terrain of the playing field involves – and what happened to her is (almost) one of the oldest stories in the book. She should probably count herself fortunate that those around her only chose to shun her – within these extra-legal pursuits there are many who take a much stronger view on her actions and choices – she’s fortunate that she did not have any dealings with them.
The best I can say about the situation is that it can prove instructive to others.
A final thought about this business of the initiation of force or violence. I am entirely unimpressed with this claim of hers of victimhood – particularly as an excuse for her subsequent choices and actions. She had the opportunity to stop the cycle – and instead proceeded to perpetuate the violence on others who may have trusted her.
Stacy – if you read this… I am very sorry for what happened to you. Your story only begins to illustrate this outrageous and immoral CF that the Wo(s)D has wrought. The choices and acts you’ve made are already cast – but what you do from here on is your call. Your complete and honest story can have some value – and if you choose to continue any activism – your story might have some real value in bringing change about. In my opinion though – you’re going to have to drop this ‘victim’ business for that to happen.
I’m reminded of a line from something I read a few weeks ago:
“It is impossible to maintain a system of coercion like this over so individual a moral choice without destroying morality itself: reality simply will not stand that contradiction.”
Billy Beck
The Facebook page is now unavailable.
The blog amounts to: 1) It isn’t my fault, 2) It’s all my ex-boyfriend’s fault, 3) People are SO unfair to me, and 4) This wouldn’t have been a problem if the police had kept me anonymous.
Still working on getting that interview; Firefox doesn’t want to load it.
She’s her own worst enemy from what I’ve found so far. And based on the visit stats search terms I’m seeing on my blog, she might as well get new business cards: “Stacy Litz, Informant”.
Hmm. She wanted to be an anonymous informer, but posts a blog, gives interviews, etc? Looks like she’s trying to victimize herself into a book deal, although she looks more like reality TV material to me.
I take back what I said earlier about being able to sympathize.
I checked the “Victim’ blog and was caught by her opening line for a May 10th entry –
“I want to make a special note that anything that I say that does not involve the three people who I aided in being arrested should not be taken as me shirking my apology to them.”
I don’t know the HTML code to put a passage in BOLD & underlined, so I’ll just repeat the key phrase:
“The three people who I aided in being arrested”
Is that like a torturer referring to the people who he “aided in telling the truth”?
While I’m inclined to agree, I want to give Stacy her due. Per a comment on the fundraising site for her victims:
An anonymous donor writes: “She has not made any attempts at restitution to her victims…” i just want to note that it’s important to acknowledge that stacy has made the largest contribution thus far ($100). i know this can’t fix everything, but she is taking the first steps towards offering restitution to her victims. if we want our movement and our community to be successful, we must give people who’ve done wrong the opportunity to redeem themselves. i’m not on either side of this issue; i don’t have a dog in this fight. i will not be contributing to any fundraisers started for Stacy, as i believe it’s just as important for her to take responsibility for her actions as it is for us to acknowledge her attempts to provide restitution. i just want our movement and our community to be successful. i wish nothing but the best to those who have been harmed by Stacy’s actions, and i really hope that everything works out. my thoughts are with you.
The fundraising site is here (I didn’t find a way to permalink to the above comment).
https://www.fundraise.com/deanna-aeanad/help-victims-of-stacy-litzs-informant-work
I tried to post this on Stacy’s blog, but that blog has some system that keeps most people from commenting. You can’t just sign up and comment. I don’t know if Stacy will read this here, but I’ll leave it here just in case.
Here’s what I tried to say on her blog:
I’m sorry for the position you were put in, Stacy. I hope you can work your way out of it and grow from this experience. But I’ve read every word you’ve posted here and I’m not seeing it. I’m seeing that you’re sorry — for getting caught and losing your reputation. I’m not seeing one, single bit of understanding of the real havoc you wrought. Not one single bit of real empathy for your victims.
What I’m seeing is self-justification and self-pity.
You feel sorry for yourself because your friends aren’t standing by you? But you betrayed everyone; why should anyone stand by you? You think they’re hypocrites for not loving you for “following your self interest”? Well, if you think your self-interest lies in serving the drug war at other people’s expense, why would any libertarian want to be around such a “self”?
You really, truly don’t seem to understand how very lucky you are. You don’t get that the traditional fate of the betrayer is to end up “sleeping with the fishes.” Or to be shot and dumped in the public square with a placard around the neck that says “Snitch” or “Collaborator.”
Am I saying those things should happen to you? No. I’m just telling you you are one lucky little girl and you really need to stop whining and realize you’ve been given a second chance.
I hope you grow and learn from this. I hope you make restitution. I hope you thrive. But you are an immature, egotistical moron if you think you deserve anything but what you’re getting.
A lot of activists throughout history have gone to prison and come out better, stronger people. I hope you do, too. You can if you put your mind and spirit to it. But grow up, little girl. You’re not some privileged princess any longer. Grow up little girl and realize that nobody owes you anything — not friendship, not forgiveness, and certainly not the loyalty you never gave to them. Grow up, little girl — and become an adult who owns her own deeds.
So far, all you’re putting out is words and whines. It’s up to you to prove you’re ever again worthy of anybody’s trust or friendship. I hope you can. But grow up and start earning — and quit whining.
Claire, having 1) read Tom Knapp’s initial take, 2) knowing people who’ve been on both ends of CI deals, 3) having been the target of such a sting, and 4) having been a peace officer, I was still still willing to be somewhat sympathetic.
Then I started reading what _Litz_ herself had to say. Sympathy went right out the window.
It’s nice that she started making restitution. But only if that $100 was just the start. $100… towards the _thousands_ (knowing the way the system works- lawyer fees, bail, lost wages, etc) that she’s already cost _each_ of her victims.
I’ll invite her to write a guest post for my blog (carlbussjaeger.blogspot.com) _once_ to give her side. Since the main thing that lost my sympathy was her apparent assertion that it all would have been OK if the cops just hadn’t blown her anonymity, I want her to explain that. She can also detail how she plans to _complete_ restitution to her victims. But she’d better have good answers, because some of my readers aren’t likely to be as kind and understanding of STASI-Girl as your readers here.
Let me say something here. And I do not mean to excuse her actions for a microsecond. Repeat….this is not an excuse. I’m not going to get all moralistic, nor shall I stand up on a pedestal and issue condemnations, libertarian or otherwise. Actions have consequences, sometimes far beyond what you may believe.
That said:
I believe that unless you have personally dealt with cops on some level beyond a traffic ticket, that you have no idea of how sly they can be in trying to turn you. Not all cops are brutish idiots. Some of them are alarmingly clever…especially when it comes to psychological tricks and basic human nature. When they are in complete control of your environment (as they are when you get arrested) , unless you have some serious inner strength, you will begin to melt down.
Just my $0.02. Worth exactly what you paid for it.
Miss Litz’s blog goes beyond surreal – this immature informant seems to be delusional and Mr. Knapp is not too far behind.
Apparently, the cops didn’t even nolle pros her case in return for her rolling over on her friends. Not surprising for such a selfish little narcissist. After all, she chose to take big risks for profit when introduced to a narc by the guy who informed on her. She could have just as easily told her “friend” that he should do business with the stranger, since the stranger was his friend.
Miss Litz seems to miss a lot of big red flags.
Now, we are to feel sorry for her because she is a victim and her friends have abandoned her. I think she and Mr. Knapp are going to have a hard time with this bizarro world concept – especially with the three “friends” of Miss Litz that she chose to throw under the bus to save her own victimized ass.
Miss Litz is now worthless to the cops as an informer since she has been outed and it is likely that her actions will not help her own case.
Miss Litz is really a victim of her own poor judgment in dealing with strangers, dealing with cops, dealing with attorneys, and dealing with friends. Whether or not she accepts responsibility for her problems, she will have to suffer the consequences of her actions.
There are a lot of drug users in jail because they trusted someone who they thought was cool simply because the other person used drugs also. How many libertarians will go to jail because they trusted someone merely on the basis of that person claiming to be a libertarian?
I guess lots, if Mr. Knapp’s advice to embrace snitches is followed. If there are too few in the freedom movement now, I can imagine there might be even less if known informers are embraces simply to fill a big tent.
We see where that has gotten the Libertarian Party. For each bigot and warmongering right-winger embraced by the LP, they seem to have lost 2 actual libertarians. Hey, maybe there’s a place in the LP for Miss Litz since C4SS won’t have her.
Tom Blanton’s question is the most astute comment I have heard yet on this controversy: “How many libertarians will go to jail because they trusted someone merely on the basis of that person claiming to be a libertarian?”
Reminds me of the situation in the 1950s when @ 20% of card-carrying members of the Communist Party USA were undercover FBI agents.
Heh. _Geshlider_ claimed to be a libertarian, too.
I’m sure that being in the situation after arrest is difficult. But this is not an excuse for poor planning. Stacy did not have the tools required to be engaging in such activities.
1. I believe that individuals who are going to engage in illegal activities as liberty activists need to have comprehensive plans together about the risks of being caught and what steps they will take if they are ever arrested. This should be a network of individuals willing to help such as great lawyers, friends, financial support, etc. They should have exit strategies in place in case the legal proceedings do not go the way they would prefer. Until this is in place, you should not try to do high risk behaviors such as selling drugs.
2. Whenever you are caught, you should resign from your positions in all organizations as fast as you can. Stacy chose to remain silent and active in many organizations. Her name is still on many websites for various liberty and student groups. She should have taken the responsibility to remove herself from these positions. If she couldn’t talk about her situation to the public for legal reasons, she could have made up an excuse like not having the time to invest in the various organizations she worked with and remove herself completely.
Hopefully others will learn from this situation and greatly consider these points before becoming the next Stacy Litz.
It appears to me that she will end up doing time in a real prison. If so, she will be in general population. Snitching on friends is not viewed lightly inside. No way can she escape wearing that jacket at this point. She has screwed herself totally. Bad enough to have a felony. But to wear the jacket of a rat bastard hypocrite snitch in prison…..well, it is true; What you sow, so shall you reap.
I found this posted under the title “On Other People” posted 4/18/12 by Stacy Litz on Stacylitz. com:
Given what we’ve been told, the last sentence is truly numbing
“Everyday I find myself struggling on how to treat other people. It’s hard because we all probably try to follow (or at least occasionally think about) following the golden rule — “do unto others as you would have done to you.”
But what if someone is a totally horrible person. Should you still follow the rule?
I’m thinking yes, only because this will teach them a lesson, if you stay strong with this principle, eventually they will cave in.
If you stay strong, keep treating them nicely, and they keep treating you terribly, is it time to go into attack mode? Still, not your only answer, you can just move on with your life and ignore them.
If you try to do this and they invade your space or keep attacking, then, yes, you can do something.
Next topic. Maybe you just don’t like someone or who they are — do you attack them?
No — first talk to them one on one. At least make a civil attempt before hurting them. Maybe they are not doing something intentionally. Have you put yourself in their shoes? Have you make a judgement too swiftly?
On a collective level, you can come out with some kind of statement of negativity. But getting personal without prior consultation may not be wise. If someone, however, came out with statements that explains everything, that is enough “proof” of their character.
People are generally friendly once you talk to them. I noticed a couple of people walking their dogs in the park today. It is sad that they needed to bring the dogs together so they could meet and greet but didn’t allow themselves to really communicate. I think people are social creatures, they learn it helps them get what they want, so they try to have some kind of social interactions regularly. Conflicts come up, hopefully being resolved with some reason. So many times, people don’t think through their actions . . . that is what gets me.”
Wow
Well, she’s very young. And not very bright about people, or sound business practices (especially important if you’re going to engage in illegal business activities). Hypocritical, pretty callous (no hint of sympathy for the folks she narced on.) Maybe she can be salvaged, I doubt it. Not the kind of person I’d want guarding MY back. It’s kind of amusing, though, that she’s an ‘anarchist’.. and put her trust in the COPS?
This has consumed a great deal of my attention for the last day. I have gone through several stages – indignation (towards Stacy), hatred (of the drug war), and relief (that we were not in that position).
When we were caught growing in late 2008, it felt like the end of the world. I was ready to run for Central America, I truly was. I don’t know if the LEOs were having a good day, thought our kid was extra-cute or gave us a break because they ended up with three healthy plants to take home and call their own (we had 13 plants, but only the 10 almost dead, already harvested ones were logged in).
Drug court was hell, but we got through it intact, despite their egomaniacal machinations. And now we stay clean, until the laws change.
After drug court ended we called up a guy we still consider a friend, the one and only person who ever moved product for us. We had told him that until we were clear of the law, it was safer for all of us if we didn’t get together or associate. Not with cops watching the house. But after the record was clear, and drug court a thing of the past, we called him up and invited him to dinner.
He said to us, “You didn’t rat me out. People I’ve known far longer, with far less to lose, have set me up to get busted.”
We looked at him in astonishment. It had never crossed our minds to do so. It wasn’t his fault we got busted and I guess I’m lucky the cops never asked – I don’t know what I would have done if they had insisted on turning us into informants. I would like to believe I would have said no…especially since we would have sucked at it…no connections!
In the end, all I can feel is sorrow and anger. Anger at those who continue to push this drug war – which is nothing more than a war on our humanity and one that destroys lives and futures and costs us nothing but blood and tears.
I feel sorrow for those caught within it – for those people who like a cornered animal turn on each other. We cannot win this war…we can only lose.
her self centeredness is mind numbing….god forbid she have to do time shes in for some serious trouble , with a snitch jacket and an attitude like that…entitled and shit …OMG she BETTER get a good attorney