I have a foster dog right now. A young, sunny, ball-crazy Lab-pit mix. He loves people and looks highly trainable except for being so hyper he can’t pay attention for half a second.
He’s the usual story in young rescue Labs; his owner never trained or socialized him and now he’s completely out of control.
This would be do-able except for one thing. He’s so insanely dog aggressive that the moment he gets near another canine, he attacks. No butt sniffing. No toothy warnings. Just — wham!
We can’t adopt out such an unpredictable dog. I can’t keep him much longer for the obvious reasons. And no other foster home will touch him. So our volunteers have been trying to get a shelter or another rescue group to take him — one that has a training program for hard cases. No luck.
It was starting to look really bad for his chances of leading a long, healthy life.
Then this morning we got a lead. A drug-dog trainer wants to meet him.
Turns out the ideal narco-sniffer is a super-high-energy, ball-crazy dog like this one. Since drug dogs live and work independently from other animals, they don’t care if he wants to eat his fellow canines for breakfast.
So it might come down to this: death or joining the drug war.
I can’t blame him if he becomes a snitch to save his life. But …
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ADDED: Many commentors have spoken up to say this boy might also be good in search & rescue or some other work. That’s great! But saying in theory that he might be able to do some job and actually finding a specific group that wants this dog at this moment is another thing. If you know of some group (preferably in the northwest but we’ll consider anything) that is looking for a boy like this and has both the resources and the willingness to take him in right now and work him through his problems, please post their contact information. We’ll follow up. Furrydoc (who is now this boy’s doc) has said she’ll board him at her kennel while we arrange transport. Our volunteers have already made many contacts and gotten turned away from (almost) every door. This is not as easy as a lot of people seem to think.
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UPDATE 5/22/12: Happy turning to this boy’s story. He’s been accepted into a shelter that has a behaviorist on staff and an excellent program for rehabilitating pit bulls. Though he’s more Lab than bully-boy, dog aggression is something these folks are accustomed to working with. He’ll be transported there later this week. The shelter is not no-kill, but it’s very low kill, and after strenuous searching, calling, and emailing, by several volunteers, this is the best chance they found for him.
Have you contacted Best Friends in Kanab Utah? It’s my understanding that they will often take last chance dogs.
Thank you, Jake. Best Friends is a wonderful organization, as is Pasado’s Safe Haven, which is here in the NW. The volunteers have so far focused on contacting organizations within reasonable driving distance of us.
Not that we haven’t mounted expeditions to transport an animal before. 🙂
It’s not my call, but I think the group’s thinking is that this dog is more difficult than desperate and more in need of good training and behavioral work than a sanctuary.
To put it bluntly, I care more about dogs than I do about people who smuggle drugs, so I would go ahead and do it. This is not the same as being a narc, which means turning on your friends. tim
Dogs like him are happiest when they have a job. I care more about the dog in this situation, so why not?
The other alternative is working with a behaviorist, but I know how difficult it is for rescues to raise funds just for the basics, let alone professional training.
Good luck with it. Let us know how it turns out.
tim and water lily — you’ve about summed it up. Indeed, this dog badly needs a job both to burn off energy and to please people (which he would obviously like to do; he just doesn’t know how).
I have to emphasize that what happens to him isn’t my call. I agreed to keep him temporarily and that’s all I’m doing. I hate to admit I’m not lovingly dedicated to every dog that crosses my path, but this boy is a danger to my pack and my first loyalty is to them.
I’d love to see a behaviorist work with this guy, money or no. He’s got potential, I think. But that can happen only if he gets into a stable living situation, which no one here is willing or able to give him.
Is there anyway you could “ruin him” for drug sniffing work before handing him over to the Empire? Like, let him snort something that would deaden his sense of smell forever or something.
It would just really bother me knowing I had helped the drug warriors in so fundamental a way by providing them with such a tool.
I guess I look at that the same way I would look at it if I had a gun manufacturer or an ammo factory. I couldn’t control if someone else bought guns and gave them to the gov without my knowledge, but if I knew that’s what they were going to do, I wouldn’t be able to sell them the weaponry.
But, I admit, I’m not as much a “dog person” as some people.
Yowch. I’m pretty sure if some technique existed for deadening a dog’s sense of smell it would constitute serious dog abuse! Not to mention that if they took him in as an assistant drug warrior then discovered he was useless, who knows what they might do with him?
I agree with you and your analogy about firearms, though. I feel just the same way — though I’d rather see him as a drug dog than a dead dog.
If he’s that hyperactive they’ll have trouble training him to focus on one smell.
I’m just thinking about this some more, but putting a human in the place of the dog… and I’m still not so sure.
Would I want “person A” to remain alive, no matter what pain and suffering they would inevitably bring upon other people because of their job, or would it be better if they died? And since all “laws” are ultimately enforced by death, I’m having trouble getting this to balance out in favor of a drug dog.
Sorry if that makes me a bad person. Seriously.
I suppose if you were down to your last resort, you could call up Cesar Milan in L. A. (aka “The Dog Whisperer”), who loves pit bulls and handles problem dogs like they were kittens. He might add your dog to his pack, or could maybe recommend steps to amend his behavior.
When a Person says they care more about dogs than they do about people who smuggle drugs, what I hear is: they don’t care about liberty or freedom, instead they prefer the jack boot.
Without liberty and freedom, dogs are worse off, as are People.
Guess I’d rather let the dog go and let him take his chances on ‘dog drop off lane’ than to help in the war against some drugs,
… or to help, The TSA’s Dogs of War
http://www.lewrockwell.com/akers/akers147.html
No, it’s not the same as being a narc, it’s much much worse.
“Ultimately, these pups will promote the TSA’s transformation of America into Auschwitz.”
Between a rock and a hard place…
If they’re going to play to his current exuberance and personality, he’s going to be labeled “incorrigible” somewhere down the road – like putting a tough kid in juvenile detention, and ultimately turning out a criminal. If he’s that aggressive now, it wouldn’t take much to manipulate him from “good dog” into “bad dog”.
I don’t want to see a healthy dog put down, and I have no answer for this one, but I have no respect for the USE that police dogs are trained for, either. Whether drug-sniffer or people-control, he’ll probably be used against more victim-less innocents than against true criminals. Don’t do it.
Wow, what a tough situation. I’d for sure have a hard time helping the dog become a drug dog too. The dog I’m training right now at the shelter is dog aggressive as well. No maybe about it, he’s hunched low and forward and will not break focus until he can get close enough to meet/fight. He failed his Good Citizen test Friday because of this. He did every other test perfect. However, because we met each Saturday for 6 weeks, my dog became familiar and friends to a degree with the other dogs in class. Maybe your foster dog would respond similarly with regular, supervised class time of some sort with the same dogs.
My gut reaction?
Twitchy dog = LOTS of false positives. Mayhaps that’s the REAL reason they are so interested?
Perhaps see if he can be trained for a beneficial job…say, search and rescue or herd work instead of being trained for verbotensnoopin.
The problem with so many helpful suggestions is that, by Wednesday, when he must leave here for the sake of my pack, my life, and my deadlines, he has nowhere to go.
Although the no-kill/low-kill philosophy and the thousands of independent rescue groups that have sprung up in the last 25 years have saved millions of lives (or prevented millions of unwanted litters with their spay/neuter programs), about 5,000,000 dogs still go into gas chambers or under the needle every year simply because nobody wants them.
It’s a lovely thing to hope that Ceasar Millan or Best Friends or Pasado’s Safe Haven could take them all. It’s wonderful to contemplate getting behavior training for every tough case. The thought of putting every high-energy dog into search and rescue work or some other beneficial job is wonderful.
And so many dogs do get saved by the type of work JS is doing and the work tens of thousands of volunteers do every day. We’ve done it here, ourselves. So have the nearby shelters and the prison-pet partnership program. You guys just helped work a little miracle recently with Sweetie the deaf ACD.
BUT … when nobody is even willing to give the dog a temporary home, solutions dwindle.
Not my call, as I’ve said. Reading about scams like this one (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/20/asset-forfeiture-wisconsin-bail-confiscated_n_1522328.html) make me feel even more sick about the idea of this dog possibly going into drug-dog training.
But I’m really glad it’s not my call, because I don’t want to be the one who drives a young, healthy, likeable dog to the vet to be killed.
Search and rescue.
Cattle herding.
Cattle range protection.
Rodeo work.
Cadaver dog.
Hunting guide dog in Alaska, Canada, etc.
Boar hunting dog.
PTSD/Veteran service dog.
Anything but a dope dog.
I’m surprised this is even an issue. If it were me, I’d put a bullet in his head, the same way I’d do with any animal that is suffering. This dog has a fatal illness, that’s all. The alternative means more people in cages; that’s what this dog being alive means. The two are not even close to being in the same level of evil.
I don’t know anything about pit bulls. I do know something about Labradors. I trained them for may years.
With the brief description here, this dog does not seem to be trainable. I really doubt any police k-9 unit would want him either. The DEA might be that stupid…
An overly aggressive dog is always going to be a danger to both people and other animals. I would put him down without question.
People have to come first. Not every dog is worth saving.
I have met this dog and he is not what I would characterize as overly aggressive. He has spent most of the last 6 months or so in a crate, probably with the other dogs in the house tormenting him. He is the kind of dog that needs a 5 mile run to think clearly. His dog aggression seems to be more of a reflex than a planned attack. In every other way I think he has potential, but it will take a long time to try to train that impulse out of him. He needs professional help. If anyone out there has any contacts with the above mentioned options, we could follow them up. If we had a plan for him, I could keep him at the clinic while he awaits transport… In my career I have seen so many hopeless cases turned around, I think he should have a chance.
Thanks, furrydoc! And amen to all you said. He’s really a very nice dog and I can’t even imagining him harming humans — unless he does so by drug sniffing!
And thanks for being willing to board him at the clinic. I hope the group takes you up on that if there are no other immediately available options.
If that’s the case, the dog would probably work well with search and rescue groups too BTW.
Standard Mischief — Yes, he probably would. And as furrydoc says, if anybody has contacts with groups (particularly in the NW) that might be looking for new, young, trainable — but chaotic — dogs to go into their programs, please post contact information.
A lot of ideas are good in theory, but unless the right dog can be matched with the specifically right group at the right time, then everything stays in the realm of theory. With millions of dogs needing help and so few hands to help them, it’s not as easy as many people seem to think.
I somewhat understand your situation. My favorite dog is half yellow lab, half pitbull. She got the best parts of both breeds. Blonde, gangly and tough. Great nose on the trail, trainable but still not the brightest bulb. She is aggressive as well. Has cost me around $1000.00 in vet bills the last year as her and my other dog have had some issues. Honi doesn’t start it (mostly) but she won’t give it up when crossed. She has never shown aggressiveness to human beings though. She is a great watch dog and doesn’t roam far the few occaisions she is off leash.
If I had to give her up, I’d look for an only dog home that the owners don’t socialize with other dogs. Basically an off grid homestead would work well. The sporting dog instincts and pitbull toughness would make a good dog to guard agains coyotes (2 and four legged) and wolves that are reclaiming lost territory.
One last thing. Locally we call the pitbull-labrador mix a Meth-Lab. Mostly because that seems to be the proffession of people breeding these mixes, and the fact that they are often hyper and unpredictable. It is hard to put an add out for a meth-lab up for adoption though.
“He has spent most of the last 6 months or so in a crate, probably with the other dogs in the house tormenting him. He is the kind of dog that needs a 5 mile run to think clearly.”
No wonder he’s aggressive! I would be too, when cooped up like that, and wouldn’t trust other “dogs” around me either.
Regardless of my personal preferences, it sounds like this placement will meet the dog’s needs and give him the chance at a good life. Is it aiding and abetting the war on drugs? Not really. It’s putting the dog’s best interests first. If there were actually alternatives, it would be a different matter. It’s not like adopting out a child to a televangelist for heaven’s sake.
In spite of my(our?) strenuous objections to the war on drugs, there are huge numbers of people out there whose lives have been destroyed by drugs or who have lost loved ones or property to drugs who would consider this dog’s potential placement as a noble job for him. If nothing more philosophically palatable turns up by Wednesday, I wish him the best.
Coming late to this … lab-pit mixes are very common around here. Very very good dogs, if raised and trained properly. He looks just like my rescue Sally from last summer, (who is currently in a foster home). The male lab-pit mixes are VERY energetic up til around 2 years old. Neutering helps. Positive training ONLY (so DEFINITELY no ‘Cesar’.) The dog aggression, yikes…. NOT natural in these dogs, UNLESS someone had begun dog fight training on him. I dont know how prevalent dog fighting is out in your area, its awful here). I dont have any contacts out West (except you and Linda,lol) I’ll ask my bullie contacts here if they have any Western contacts…
Karen wrote, “If there were actually alternatives”
Uh, yeah, “oops, he got loose. Don’t know where he’s at.” And then there’s the MamaLiberty option which reminds me of a scene out of, Of Mice and Men.
To say that giving him to TSA/DEA is not really aiding and abetting the war on drugs is laughable.
No way in heck is this dog’s potential placement “noble” in any way, shape or form. Did you even read the links in this thread? Especially this one, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/20/asset-forfeiture-wisconsin-bail-confiscated_n_1522328.html
Wow, do we ever live in a land of terrible People.
There aren’t huge numbers of people out there whose lives have been destroyed by drugs, they’ve been done in by their own actions and the crazy reactions of the schizophrenic state and those who support the war on some drugs.
Clark, we have no disagreement whatsoever that the war on drugs as it currently manifests itself is reprehensible. But that really isn’t about the dog.
There is also a ludicrous and reprehensible war on pit bulls(and mixes) with ever growing support thanks to bad PR. Marley’s options are limited. furrydoc has agreed to board him until a better option might arise, but what kind of life is being boarded for a big active boy? And will those other options work out like those of Sweetie the deaf ACD with him being shuffled from pillar to post by well meaning folks not really up to the task of dealing with his needs, making him worse at every turn?
I still think this is a good potential option for Marley where he’ll get care and training and if that makes me evil or an idiot in your eyes, well, so be it.
It’s better that one dog die than for one person to be caged due to the dog’s “job”.
That he is a member of a breed that suffers racism has no bearing on that. By doing that “job” he would be confirming the biases against his breed.
Well, THAT part of the problem is solved. Two women came today to evaluate him. One pursues the benign causes of search & rescue and placing dogs in a prison-pet partnership program. The other, her friend, trains drug and bomb dogs.
The former couldn’t take our guy because of his dog aggression. The latter instantly spotted that while he’s “on the high-end of ball-drive for a pet” he’s on the low end for cop dogs. (The dogs they require are so ball motivated they’ll ignore everything, including other dogs, humans, and food, to pursue a tennis ball.)
So that leaves us with about two days to find another option for him. Unfortunately, the only other lead we’ve had is from a group that wants exactly that same insanely focused level of ball-drive and was also interested in him for police work.
If you can justify putting this dog’s welfare ahead of human welfare then you perhaps can justify taking a job at the DEA ….. perhaps you can justify being a slavemaster because you would be nicer to the slaves than other slavemasters. So much for worship of individual liberty. 99guspuppet
Gus — Was that remark meant for me?
Added: If not meant for me, were you addressing it to someone else in particular?
If it was meant for me, have you read everything I’ve written in this post and its comment thread?
@gus, if Chuckie Schumer and a dog were laying unconscious on train tracks with a train speeding down on them who would you save? Sometimes putting dog welfare over some human scumbags welfare is the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean I think Clair should give the dog to drugcopscum, but if you read it doesn’t sound like she wants to do that anyway.
“(The dogs they require are so ball motivated they’ll ignore everything, including other dogs, humans, and food, to pursue a tennis ball.)”
Ball motivated?? I would have thought the dog should be drug/work-motivated (“Good boy, Duke” – as he gets a pat on the head.). If he is totally reward-motivated (“Let’s get this over with so I can play ball”), that might explain why false positives occur. A smart dog can manipulate the cop!
Am I missing something here? What is this cop woman saying?
Pat, I got the impression that the ball is the reward for finding drugs. The drugs can’t be the reward because the dog isn’t allowed to have those. And of course we do know drug dogs give false positives all the time trying to please their handlers. So maybe you’re right.
I had only a brief conversation with the lady, standing in the rain, so I’m still pretty vague on how it’s all done.
I wish I’d had the presence of mind to ask more questions, but it was an uncomfortable enough conversation that I didn’t want to prolong it. The women were busy traveling, evaluating, and picking up and dropping off dogs, so they probably didn’t want to, either.
Thanks for the update! Have I mentioned that I love updates? I’m glad that a positive alternative was found and now Marley has a chance, maybe even for a family. Woot!
Here’s another up date. We just got news today that a Humane Society is willing to take him into their pit-bull rehab program. Now we just have to get him there about 100 miles away. They have a really great track record with dogs like this.
Am glad to hear that. Neither original alternative was worthy of him.