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Better sense on guns

It was a disgrace (though not a surprise) that so many allegedly pro-gun “leaders” made no case for firearms in the wake of the Newtown shooting. Worse, some didn’t merely turn tail, but turned coats.

Given its history, it’s hard to be optimistic about the “meaningful contributions” the NRA promises for this Friday.

But outside the swamp of Congress and K Street, the real freedomista voices never wavered.

The WSJ printed a thoughtful David Kopel piece. (Kopel also mentions something about last week’s Clackamas Mall shooting I hadn’t read anywhere else — something that explains why the shooter offed himself before taking more victims.)

David Codrea described described the real national conversation we should be having on guns.

John R. Lott spoke up.

But — here’s the real shocker — our very own Infamous Oregon Law Hobbit agrees with those who say that some people should have to give up their freedom. 😉

The President said in his speech: “Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?”

And I would say that it’s not. Children are more precious than freedom.

The President also said: “If there’s even one step we can take to save another child or another parent or another town from the grief that’s visited Tucson and Aurora
and Oak Creek and Newtown and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that, then surely we have an obligation to try.”

And I would agree. We have an obligation to take that step needed to keep our children safe.

There really is no choice, and the cost in freedom is one that the losers are just going to have to bear, for the children.

No longer should teachers be allowed to be in school fat, dumb, happy, and lacking responsibility. They are going to have to give up their freedom to be unarmed and going to have to start carrying firearms to protect their charges. Openly.

I realize this may work a hardship on some of them, but, as the president said, it’s one step we can take and the price, in freedom, is not too high.


  1. MamaLiberty
    MamaLiberty December 19, 2012 5:45 am

    “They are going to have to give up their freedom to be unarmed and going to have to start carrying firearms to protect their charges. Openly.”

    May sound good at first, but the bottom line isn’t guns or carrying them, but personal responsibility. If parents will not take actual responsibility for their own safety and that of their children, trying to force unwilling others to shoulder that burden will be as problematic as any other such measure, with its own unintended consequences.

    I suspect Mr. Hobbit wrote this more or less tongue in cheek, but I challenge him to clarify the idea if he was serious.

  2. G.W.F.
    G.W.F. December 19, 2012 6:25 am

    The 9/11 attacks seemed pretty horrible to me, but there was not public outcry after to ban airplanes and air travel. I am no fan of the TSA, but the approach was the try and weed out the terrorist before they board a plane. It makes more sense because the public seems to realize it was the terrorist the blame, not airplanes.

    It sickens me to see stories of how this guys mother, an evil prepper, “supplied” him with the guns he used…..sure after she had been shot multiple times in the head!

    I guess if someone is car-jacked and shot dead at the scene, but then the car-jacker crashes the car killing innocent people, the car-jack victim “supplied” the crook with the murder weapon.

    I’m sorry but if someone is crazy and evil enough to shoot his own mother in the head to get the guns, there is no law you can pass to keep him from getting guns.

    As, many other paranoid gun nuts I found myself at the gun store last night buying a few of those evil black rifles. I had not planned on buying anything right now, but I am afraid that if I don’t now, I will not be able to again. I really think the people who are pushing for new laws should go through the buying process. Between the showing ID, paperwork, and background check it takes a law abiding gun owner at an hour to actually purchase a gun (with the backlog on the background checks not, closer to two). Those gun haters think you just fill up your shopping cart and run them through the auto-checkout. They just don’t understand.

    I was in college when the Clinton gun ban went in. I was lucky to have enough money to buy Ramen noodles, so buying guns/clips/drums before then was not possible. I waited a long time to see the ban lift. If this is going to go in again, I plan to max out the credit cards and really stock up this time around.

  3. just waiting
    just waiting December 19, 2012 6:56 am

    Its not so far-fetched, it happened to a friend a long time ago. She was carjacked at gunpoint. Luckily, she was unhurt except for some scapres and bruises. The carjacker later robbed something, and ran someone over in their escape. As the car’s owner, she got sued by the guy the carjacker ran over. Insurance paid the claims, but she still went through the heartache of being robbed then sued.

  4. IndividualAudienceMember
    IndividualAudienceMember December 19, 2012 9:41 am

    And on a positive note, I am eternally thankful I’m not a part of the hypnotized masses:

    The viewer: “Don’t bother me, I’m hypnotized. Don’t interrupt the frequency my brain is absorbing while I’m watching the news.”

    … the brain is being bathed in rhythms and frequencies that literally train it to accept the information that is being transmitted at the same time. … It is mass hypnosis.

    … The audience,… in that state of mass hypnosis, can be pointed to exactly the wrong remedy for the tragedy. …

  5. Roger
    Roger December 19, 2012 9:51 am

    Yes ban the evil black rifles. I mean if Charles Whitman hadn’t had then he wouldn’t have ……. Oh wait he used a bolt action rifle, a shotgun, a knife and his bare hands!!!!
    Had the same system the Israelis use been in place the non of these school shootings would have occurred.

  6. Ardmore
    Ardmore December 19, 2012 11:37 am

    It might not sound like good news, but Obama has placed Crazy Joey in charge of gun grabbing policy making decisions. Crazy Joey is O’s way of saying “Look at the squirrel!”.

  7. IndividualAudienceMember
    IndividualAudienceMember December 19, 2012 11:44 am

    You might like this, Roger.
    Did you see the CNN bit with Piers Morgan debating GOA’s Larry Pratt?:

    I’m really impressed with Larry Prat’s calmness and rational thinking,… and his manners!
    The stark contrast between the two People is Amazing to me.
    I was going to write ‘men’ rather than ‘People’ but I think there’s only one man there.

    I just think Larry Prat is a good Positive example of how to act when faced with others (full grown adults!) who are intent on acting as if they were children,… spoiled whinny ones at that.

  8. kevin m
    kevin m December 19, 2012 12:51 pm

    Piers Morgan is an excellent example of Lenin’s term “useful idiot”.

  9. kevin m
    kevin m December 19, 2012 12:59 pm

    The “Dunning-Kruger Effect”. A cognitive bias that makes stupid people blind to their own stupidity. In Piers Morgan’s case it is more a cognitive bias that makes a willfully ignorant/rude person blind to his own willful ignorance/rudeness.

  10. EN
    EN December 19, 2012 1:46 pm

    Yes, the Clackamas Mall Rapid Mass Murder attempt was stopped by a 22 year old with a CC permit. And he handled it very well. He could have shot the the gunmen but there were people in the background so he wisely stayed behind a column close to the shooter who was trying to fix his dreaded “Assault rifle” which was jammed. The shooter noticed the armed gentleman and ran off and shot himself.

  11. The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit
    The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit December 19, 2012 2:39 pm

    Roger, didn’t Whitman have an M1 carbine?

    ML, my bit there is only partly tongue in cheek. If sacrifices are going to have to be made, then those sacrifices should be borne by the fewest possible people. And, more importantly, what is wrong with requiring people to accept personal responsibility for their actions? Teachers insist that they stand in loco parentis, and state laws require students to attend those schools. As such, why *shouldn’t* they be required to accept the full measure of that responsibility, which should – I hope you would agree – having the tools and training to protect their charges, if need be.

    If the teachers do not wish to bear that burden then they need to be backing away from demanding the other rights that go with parenthood, such as compelling obedience and attendance by the children in the Designated Victim Assembly And Indoctrination Areas (also known as “public schools”).

  12. The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit
    The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit December 19, 2012 2:40 pm

    That should be “…an M1 carbine along with the other firearms.” The writing department of Hobbit, Inc., apologizes for any confusion that may have been caused.

  13. Chris
    Chris December 19, 2012 2:49 pm

    RE: Clackamas Mall Shooter and Intervener

    I saw the report online by the Portland TV station, but the reporter did not offer any corroborating evidence from other witnesses or law enforcement that Nick Meli, the intervener, did what he said he did. I hope the story is true, but Mr. Meli is a security guard with aspirations of being a cop.

    See the KGW report and video here:

  14. MamaLiberty
    MamaLiberty December 19, 2012 3:28 pm

    I agree in part, Mr. Lawhobbit… but the true responsibility remains with the actual parents. If those parents wish to hire spineless jellyfish “teachers” to instruct their children and leave them vulnerable, that’s their business. If other parents decide to hire teachers who accept responsibility for the safety of the children and either go armed themselves or arrange for real security otherwise, then no problem. I suspect they’ll have to arrange for separate buildings, however. 🙂

    My only objection is the imposition of guns – for any reason – on those who do not want them. They will NOT be responsible or effective in that case.

  15. Samuel Adams
    Samuel Adams December 19, 2012 4:30 pm

    My compliments to this crew. It is nice, and very rare, to see on the Internet these days a calm civil discussion of guns and Second Amendment issues. No name calling, no insults, none of the usual nonsense that usually passes for discussion these days.

  16. The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit
    The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit December 19, 2012 5:42 pm

    Oh oh … I’m a “Mr.” now. That’s not good.

    No argument on where the ultimate responsibility lies, ML. Keeping in mind, though, that yer averij parent doesn’t get any real say in who’s hired to teach his kids. State teachers are hired by school boards and school boards are elected – sorta – by parents who probably spend lots of time watching TV and haven’t cracked a book of their own for years. They’re abdicating responsibility in oh-so-many-ways.

    There is nothing stopping responsible parents (in many jurisdictions) from withdrawing their kids from the dotgov camps and arranging for alternate education forms. Of course, your mileage may vary in regard to how those alternatives may be set up. For those parents trapped behind enemy lines … good grounds to emigrate, I’d say. 😉

    One thought to consider, though, in regard to mandatory imposition of carry. Do you think that the typical psychopath is going to take the chance that in the building full of armed adults there won’t be at least one or two who’d have on compunction in regard to revoking his birth certificate?

  17. Stryder
    Stryder December 19, 2012 9:45 pm

    As Robert Hienlien quoted, “An armed society is a polite society.” You never hear of one of these nuts walking into a police station and opening fire.

  18. Roger
    Roger December 20, 2012 2:58 am

    Yes Whitmen did but none of the murders he commited is it recorded he used it. He used a Remington 700, still in my humble opinion, one of the best out of the box rifles you can buy.
    Much is made of him being an ex marine too, but be honest, if you can’t hit a target a 440yds with a scoped Rem you’ve got no business holding the damn thing in the fist place.
    As Clare knows I am from the UK. Piers Morgan is from here, he is now yours and sorry no refunds or exchanges will be accepted.
    If you want to see what happens when spree killers are used to justify new gun laws then look at us.
    1987 hungerford massacre- Ryan uses Chinese AK , m1 carbine and beretta 92sf. Semi auto rifles banned
    1996 Dublane school massacre- Hamilton used 2 semi auto and 2 .357 s&w revolvers. Handguns banned.
    2010 Cumbria Massacre- Derrick Bird uses a shotgun and a .22 silenced rifle.
    In each case the killers just changed the type of firearm.
    Despite having an assault rifle Ryan only managed to kill 3 people more than Bird and his .22.
    All three had a history of mental illness.
    Hamilton killed the most, not because he had handguns, but because his victims were captive in their school.
    In the UK mental illness in a gun owner or a resident member of their family is sufficient for the withdrawal of a gun license and confiscation of the guns. In each case the police failed in their duty.
    In Hamiltons case his scout masters warrant had been withdrawn and his firearms license revoked due to very public concerns about him. Through a personal friendship with the chief constable( some have alleged through the Freemasons) his license was returned. At the inquest the records were sealed for 100 years. Supposedly to protect the victims families but they were the most voluble in wanting them public.
    No doubt Obama is using our experiences as a game plan.

  19. Hanza
    Hanza December 20, 2012 8:40 am

    @Stryder: According to a news article I read years ago some nut job *did* go into a police station, and start shooting. IIRC he ended up dead but not before killing/and or wounding more than one officer.

    Regarding the CC permit holder at the Clackamas Mall, he disregarded or didn’t notice that the place is a posted “free fire zone”. I hope he doesn’t have to suffer any negative fallout over that.

  20. Stryder
    Stryder December 21, 2012 8:13 am

    gotta admit, it sure would be a good place for “suicide by cop”.

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