When last we spoke (or at least when last we spoke about flowerpot-n-candle space heaters) I reported dismal failure.
Attempting to use one of the devices in a uninsulated 8 x 10 room with big windows produced zero results. In fact, the temperature dropped half a degree while the “heater” was running despite outside temperatures not appreciably changing.
So today I tried again, moving the heater into a 7 x 7 windowless room with decent insulation. The room was 58 degrees when I started. And …
12:00 noon — 58 degrees
1:00 p.m. — 58 degrees
2:00 p.m. — 58 degrees
3:00 p.m. — 58 degrees
So that’s that. I’m not going to try Bear’s suggested experiment of candle-heater vs plain candle (in comments on the earlier post) because there’s nothing to compare. The engineers were right.
Also. During the first experiment I discovered that the roof was leaking. During the second a frozen pipe thawed and began spraying water all over the place. So I think Someone (Coyote, Loki, and Murphy are all suspects here) is trying to tell me Something. Like STOP doing this.
The only observable result — other than weather-and-house-related chaos — is that in the smaller, tighter room, I definitely felt the warmth of the heater while standing within 18 inches of it. If I were, say, tinkering at a work bench with the candle contraption next to me, I might say it worked. I might appreciate the extra warmth. But three feet away, where the thermometer sat — nada.
I’ve been using the three-pot version with the metal inside. I may still fiddle with the two-pot tea-light version. Later. Not until I’m sure that the house won’t fall down around my shoulders if I try.
It takes a long time to change the temperature of a room more than superficially, even with a good heater. I have the oil filled radiator type electric heaters, and they are very efficient overall, but the starting temperature of the walls and other room contents is very important in achieving any sustainable warmth.
The outer walls of my home are big 12 inch logs, and once the inner surface reaches an acceptable temperature, it doesn’t take a lot to keep them there. Getting there, however, can mean the heaters run pretty much full bore night and day for a while. I have excellent weather stripping, put cardboard into the windows at night to reduce the heat loss, and have heaters positioned to protect the pipes in the kitchen and bathroom at night sometimes too. A dip into serious negative numbers is a real challenge, but so far I’ve done OK.
God help me if the electicity fails for very long, however. Keeping the wood stove fed in such cold weather would make the heater and cardboard dance seem like child’s play. But you do what you gotta’ do…
if you have a quarter pound of paraffin wax burning,
…and that wax has 18,000 Btu/lb,
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=4%2C500+BTU+in+watt-hours
DDG / Wolfram|Alpha says that’s about 1319 W h (watt hours) of energy,
So that’s like running a 15 amp/117 volt electric heater for a little short of one hour, and at the cost of about 20 cents of power. I hope those tea lights are cheap.
I’m probably missing some efficiency losses somewhere, but we’re not talking about a tremendous amount of heat in any event. Also, candles are a major cause of house fires, so be careful.
I’m also not saying that this can’t possibly work, I’m asking if you’re trying to warm up an igloo to above freezing or something, because this reminds me of a Qulliq.
Also, you get 21622 BTU per pound of propane. The vending machine at Home Despot charges like $25 for a #20 bottle of propane that’s only filled up 3/4 of the way (15 lbs) with exchange. So (21622 * 15) / 25 = 12,973 BTUs per dollar if I buy propane instead.
Search amazon for Vent-Free propane heaters, and remember your carbon monoxide alarm.
Maybe it works better in a snow cave or fox hole.
Too bad. I was kinda hoping for an emergency heater that could be stored in a trunk of a car in case of a break-down during a cold winter. Wouldn’t want to be like that computer guy and his family that got stuck in the snow in the Northwet.
From what you’re saying, it may be better to invest in a good 4-Season Arctic/Antarctic class Sleeping Bag.
@standard mischief: That 3/4 filling of a 20# tank is the max that is legally allowed.
JimB.: Coleman sells (or used to) a catalytic propane heater that screws onto a stand 1 pound canister… Ah! Here’s the current version: SportCat PerfecTemp Catalytic Heater. Kinda pricey at $44 (even adjusting for inflation I think I paid a lot less for my old one), but you can use it indoors, in a tent, or a car/truck (mine goes in my winter emergency vehicle kit).
It’s sold as a heater, but you can heat food over it, too (it makes toast rather nicely [grin]).
Claire I am sorry that your experiment failed. As for me I guess that it is a placebo thing. I find that it works well in my tiny (8’X12′) workshop. Mind you I preheat the little room with a kerosene heater and then I use the candle heater to maintain the temp… The only thing I am planning to do is getting the bottom half of a cheap oil lamp and using that in place of the candle. Next time I am out there using the stuff I am going to bring a thermometer and check the heat. Mind you with all these revelations I don’t think I will feel as warm as I have in my work shop again… Curses. ;^)
@ Jim B – If you decide to get a Sport Cat you can save a few cents by using the BernzOmatic Propane Hand Torch Cylinder instead of the one for camping. The cylinders have the same thread.
[catalytic propane heater]
I’ve got one of those. My only concern is that they do convert oxygen into carbon dioxide, the same oxygen I am trying to breathe, so they still have to be used carefully if in enclosed spaces. At least their carbon monoxide production is probably very low.
[I definitely felt the warmth of the heater while standing within 18 inches of it.]
Heat in close proximity is a good thing. In my opinion the electric blanket is one of the greatest inventions ever produced by humanity. It’s particularly good for old fogeys like me where the internal fires don’t burn so brightly as they do with the young. I have a hell of a time heating up a cold bed with my body heat.
[From what you’re saying, it may be better to invest in a good 4-Season Arctic/Antarctic class Sleeping Bag.]
Bingo. I used to drive in winter with a good sleeping bag along with a 12v heating pad or blanket like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Trillium-12V-Heated-Travel-Blanket/dp/B0000DYVN9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386520289&sr=8-1&keywords=trillium+12v+blanket
That way if I ended up buried in a snow bank I could climb into the sleeping bag with this pad inside to help me get the thing warmed up. Might have to be careful about running the battery down though.
For space heaters though, nothing beats a good wood stove. When the temps get very low mine is running hard and doing most of the house heating, and if the power goes down it’s a minor inconvenience, not an emergency. In western Oregon it’s amazing how small a woodlot will keep you supplied with wood indefinitely. If this area is good for anything, it is growing trees.
[I have the oil filled radiator type electric heaters, and they are very efficient overall…]
They are actually no more efficient than any other electric element heater. They are however nice to use because their heat is spread over a large surface making them safe and pleasant to use. No fried dust…
The only way to get more efficient with electricity is a heat pump. Those new (to us – Japanese are long familiar with them) ductless “mini splits” are excellent. Here is one at the top of the efficiency (and price!) ratings:
http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-SEER-Ductless-Mini-Split-System/dp/B00E8FTW66/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1386519944&sr=8-5&keywords=seer+mini+mitsubishi
Look for that seer number; higher is better. We installed a couple of the cheaper Daikin ones and really like them; however don’t install the inside unit over your bed like I had the installer do (doh!)
Thanks, I’ll look into getting one.
Oh, you’ll get through whatever Mama. If there’s a soul who can’t be victimized by anything, it’s you! We finally went from corn/pellet to wood, so at least we live if the power goes out for a month. Paul’s right IMO; nothing beats a good wood stove for efficiency. We’ve just got a little one, and it’s pretty amazing. And in my poverty-ridden territory, wood is very cheap.
When I saw the first mention of these heaters I thought, “make a nice hand warmer.”
I use an electric heat pump for emergencies. Not today, though, because it’s only down to 82F.
MamaLiberty, Claire – instead of cardboard, I use 2 inch thick non-toxic foam panels from Home Depot, about $5 each, pressure fit across the bottoms of my windows (which are double pane, relatively new, and supposed to be very efficient but at -15 and colder with a strong wind even good windows need help). This is my first year using them and it really makes a strong comfort difference for a small amount of money.
zelda — Would you mind posting a link? I’m not clear on what you’re talking about. I know about foam insulation panels (e.g. for floors). But don’t think I’ve seen anything like what you’re talking about. Thanks!
@Hanza
I’m pretty sure that a #20 tank use to hold 20 pounds of propane. My search-fu is telling me with the new overfill prevention floaty device, the limit is 17.5 lb, which makes sense because I’ve seen some tanks advertised that they contain 17 lbs. I think the big guys like “blue rhino” inspect, paint and refill the tanks assembly-style with semi-skilled workers and robot assistance. Perhaps putting 15# in a #20 tank is faster this way or something. Maybe not enough people bother to notice the fine print.
All I know is the days of paying for a refill at my local hardware store and pulling around to the side for some teenager to fill my tank on the spot; that’s probably gone forever. With the cost of labor I doubt you would even be able to break even nowadays.
@Paul Bonneau
Yep, much more CO2 than CO, so they’re pretty safe. They’re also used in greenhouses unvented because they turn natural gas or propane into the CO2 that plants love along with moisture (which can be a blessing inside or a curse if too much.) Note that candles consume the exact same O2, but usually don’t come with oxygen depletion sensors or thermostats built in.
@Claire
Sorry, I noticed too late that much of the BTU stuff was already on the prior thread.
@ standard mischief: The 15# figure is what popped into my mind, and isn’t something I looked up. It was long ago that I was reading why 20# cylinders don’t hold an actual 20#, and it had to do with the necessity of providing expansion space.
That expansion space is the reason that there are overfill prevention devices.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-150-2-in-x-48-in-x-8-ft-Scored-Squared-Edge-Foam-45W/100320352#.UqZUg6qYNpg
There are many varieties of this stuff. Different thicknesses and linear size combinations. You can also get it with foil layer. Price will depend on the thickness and the sheet size.
I used to use the Frost King heat-shrink window kits. Not sure how much good they did, but if done right, they will stop airflow.
jed — Oh, that stuff. The same stuff you put under floors and such. I was thinking zelda meant some product especially for windows (cause I sure wasn’t thinking of that material as being $5/sheet). I don’t think I’d want to block up my windows like that. But I’m looking at different options for covering the opening where the skirting used to be. Straw bales, foam … whatever. Gotta be inexpensive and easy to install and remove because it’s going to be temporary.
FORTUNATELY, the temps went all the way to 33 degrees this afternoon, the pipes defrosted apparently without damage, and the floor no longer feels like the surface of an ice rink. Now it’s time to get ready for any other arctic blast that might be out there.
Hope everybody else is getting past this “global warming” nice & safely, too.
That’s my best guess as to what Zelda was talking about. Isn’t blue though.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/R-Tech-1-1-2-in-x-2-ft-x-4-ft-Foam-Insulation-310876/202524156?N=aqnsZ12kx%2FNtk-All%2FNtt-foam%3FNtx%3Dmode%20matchall%26NCNI-5#.Uqacg6qYNpg
There’s a cheaper version. I guess, depending on how much area you need to cover, one or more pieces of that up against the side of the house — foundation wall, I’m assuming, and braced in place, would stop the worst of the airflow. Scrounged up pieces of OSB or plywood, or heavy vinyl sheeting could do it too.
Well, looks as if your freezing temperatures are on the way out. I hope for long enough to get your skirting replaced. Speaking of global warming, http://bigstory.ap.org/article/cold-dis-comfort-antarctica-set-record-1358
I realize that weather does not equal climate, but there’s a certain perverse enjoyment in noting that the more Al Gore runs his windbag, the more cold weather we get.