I’m next in line. I have three items in my little handbasket and a $20 in hand. It’s lunch hour and traffic’s picking up as workers come in for deli food. People are lining up behind me. But the lady at the counter has only 20 or so items. This should go quickly.
But nooooooo.
[rant]
First, the clerk rings up all the groceries then starts to ring the three tomato plants in the back of the cart. Only then does the customer — I’ll call her Gertrude; she looked like a Gertrude — say, “Oh no, those need to be run up separately.”
Okay. So off the tab go the plants. Leaving a grocery total of $33.65. Gertrude swipes her debit card. Uh oh. It’s got only 21.22 available. (I can see all this on the embarrassingly public electronic screen.)
Deep into her grocery bags Gertrude goes rooting, looking for something to return to the store. Shall I put back that one? No, not that one. Maybe … no. Okay. This one. The process takes more deliberation than the Syrian peace talks.
Eventually one small item comes off the tab.
Not enough. Not even close.
More rooting. Another item eventually gets subtracted. It’s a tiny bottle of a fancy spice, $6.55. Good choice, Gertie.
But still not sufficient.
More rooting. Yet another painstakingly chosen item goes back to the store.
The line gets longer and the clerk calls for another checker. People behind me rush over to the next lane before I can. Oh well, no big deal. After all, we’re nearly done, right?
Right?
Finally, Gertrude has pared her order down so that it’s just $1.09 over what her debit card can handle. She decides she can afford to pay cash for that. More rooting, this time to find $1 here and a dime someplace else.
Done!
Uh … no.
After that she decides to buy back an item she previously deleted. $3.98. More rooting. There is a $5 bill right in her hand, but for some reason she doesn’t want to pay with that. Goes hunting for change …
Eventually, the sweet saint of a clerk gets Gertrude through all her transactions (though I’m thinking she never did go back and ring up those tomato plants). Meanwhile, the line’s been getting longer, mostly with hungry workers clutching deli goods, probably counting the already-short minutes of their 30-minute lunch “hours.”
Never once — not once! — in this whole process does Gertrude look back at the people in line and say, “I’m sorry for taking so much time.”
All the shoppers (including, somewhat to my surprise, me) minded our manners. Little eye-rolling. Not a single snide remark. Nevertheless, I was busily thinking like a curmudgeon. Because I am one. At least when it comes to this subject. Now — safely within my Internet lair — I can admit all.
And I ask you: Guess who issued the debit card Gertie used to pay (then un-pay) for her groceries? Just guess. Oh, you say you already figured that out five or six paragraphs ago? Yeah. It wasn’t all that hard, was it?
Isn’t that the case? Every. Single. Bloody. Time? The only bit of credit I can give Gertie is that at least pricy spices are a taste upgrade over the cookies, chips, pop, sugar cereals, and ice cream that are usually being put back on the counter by people who forget that even the taxpayers’ well isn’t bottomless.
My gripe isn’t against people who are desperate enough to need food stamps; that could happen to any of us, these days. But what is it with these jerks who can’t do elementary arithmetic and can’t be bothered go to an ATM, pick up a phone, or log on ahead of time to check their available balances? Does “entitlement” imply “entitled to waste everybody else’s time, as well as everybody else’s money”?
[/rant]
The stories of the food stamp recipients who buy lobster and steak are annoying, but probably not all that common. The carts full of soda, chips, fancy frozen stuff and assorted sugar bombs can be seen all too frequently, even here.
Recently, I saw a young woman with two very small children get a dozen little frozen containers of macaroni and cheese. With a food stamp card. Cardboard non-food made extremely convenient. And for the cost of at least twice as much fresh meat.
There wasn’t a scrap of real food in the cart! Not a shred of fruit, vegetable, fresh meat, cheese, eggs, milk or whole grain anything. Sugar, fat and processed starch… donuts, soda pop, and so forth… I felt so bad for those children.
In answer to your last question: yes. Just ask any one of them.
So you and the guys in line simply stood quietly and suffered in silence? How very Canadian of you. (Wrote the guy from the Great White North) ;^)
First let me say that you, Claire, are a better person than me. I would have placed the items on the cashier’s station, wished the cashier good luck and left. I have never been one to suffer fools gladly and I absolutely hate cattle lines.
BTW it’s not just that end of the spectrum that causes problems. Last weekend was the first holiday weekend (Victoria Day) up here in Canada. I live in cottage country and had to go to the drug store for some items. There were only 5 in line in front of me and when the person in front of me stepped up to the cash there was an issue with the cost of an item. The difference was a whopping 29 cents and the store has a price match policy. It took almost 6 minutes to resolve the issue to the customers satisfaction. I watched this well dressed lady leave, head held high, and get into her late model Volvo. During all this kerfuffle the line at the single case had grown substantially.
Yes spring is here, like the story of the return of the Swallows to San Juan Capistrano’s Mission, all the yuppies have returned to cottage country.
LOL, MJR — Yes, just like good Canadians. I very nearly did leave my stuff and walk out. Came close to making a remark about Gertie’s failure to do math, too. Main reason I didn’t was that saint of a clerk. She was being so sweet and so patient that I didn’t think I should make her day any harder. Also, she’s a dog person and she knows I am, too. So I didn’t want to act like a you-know-what in front of her.
Funny, I know prosperous people can be thoughtless jerks, too. I mean, can’t we all, at one time or another? But this kind of thing seems more common with people who are poor and unthinking. Or poor because they’re unthinking.
When it comes to quality of food acquired with EBTs it is sad. Often the person acquiring the food has little or no concept of cooking, that requires more than a microwave, or frozen pizza in an oven. It would not be unusual to learn that the only “fresh” food they are expereinced with is from a restaurant, fast food or semi-fast food. In today’s convenince society, why go to the bother of cooking, when easy stuff is readily available. So many of the kids eat lunch at government schools that the indoctrination to “nutritious” slop as food begins at an early age. They quite truly don’t know much better. They do know that a child or two helps them snag better benefits…
I take it for granted that it’s not all that hard to check your balance on a EBT card. I have seen clerks I would nominate for sainthood. They’re way better folks than me. I usually tell the clerk that( Your halo should be showing-you gotta be a saint to put up with jerks like that) if I get behind some jerkweed,and I have emailed store managers when I see some saintly clerk politely handling a situation like that. Everyone can be a jerk at some point, but some people make a career out of it. Probably the most bizarre EBT drama I’ve seen is a guy went all ballistic when his card was way under what he bought. Big drama about his kids starving, yada yada,and so on and so fifth-and pays for his 12 pack of Bud with cash. No doubt the guy felt cheated by the Universe in some way, because he really wanted a case of beer.
No doubt they get all sorts of other freebies, too.
Some people are narcissistic jerks, and some people have brains that have misdeveloped or been damaged in some way that makes it difficult for them to process the baroque complexities of human social interactions. It’s difficult to tell the difference sometimes. Perhaps this woman was spending so much mental juice trying to figure out if a $5 bill will cover a $3.98 purchase that she couldn’t also figure out if she was making a nuisance of herself. Maybe it was a triumph of self-reliance that she even made it to the store that day. I dunno. I don’t usually get into this spirit of generosity, but today it’s settled on me good, so I’m milking it for what it’s worth. I get bent at idiots, fools, and natural-born-obstacles all the time, but I often feel better about myself when I instead take the opportunity to try to teach my stubborn self some patience and generosity. It also helps me be less flustered and embarrassed and reluctant to look at my own annoying foibles.
[Recently, I saw a young woman with two very small children get a dozen little frozen containers of macaroni and cheese. With a food stamp card. Cardboard non-food made extremely convenient. And for the cost of at least twice as much fresh meat.]
Indeed irritating. But.
If you go to the store with $100 in your food budget, and shop generic, buy in bulk, and select fresh instead of prepared, the food may only cost $75. You now have $25 you can use for clothing, apply to the rent, spend to upgrade day care, purchase medical care, or whatever.
If “they” go to the store with 100 food stamps in their food budget, and shop generic, buy in bulk, and select fresh instead of prepared, the food may only cost 75 food stamps. They now have 25 food stamps that they can only legally use for more food. But they already have the food they need.
I don’t know about Canada, but the U.S. welfare system effectively discourages food budgeting, thrift, nutrition, and such. Just as it does any other form of independence or responsibility.
I dunno….I guess some people were a little confused when god said step up for brains and they thought he said trains and they didn’t get it line… My pet gripe are those people who use credit cards (no, not the welfare kind) and then go through several cards to find one that works….and….those who pay by check. Those really tick me off, first, they don’t pre write the stores name etc. Then, they have to wait for the check to get approved, and then……they have to enter the am’t in thier check register….that takes forever since they can’t subtract in their mind and have left their calculator at home. Even with that, they still aren’t done….now they have to put the check book back in their purse just so….that can take forever. Why people use credit cards and checks in a food store…I just don’t know…..sheesh!
Curt S, I agree with you about checks, but if used correctly (with the little card swipe boxes, which by the way are never mounted for left-handers; rant, rant) credit cards are often faster than paying cash. I always use one for groceries. Plus Discover is nice enough to give me actual cash back on my purchases, even though I always pay the balance in full each month and so never pay them any interest.
Claire, did Gertrude ever get those tomato plants? My guess is that they couldn’t be purchased with the EBT card which is why she wanted them rung up separately and was holding off the $5 bill. Good to know there are still some things which can’t be purchased with food stamps (although frankly I’d rather see people buying tomato plants with them than beer or junk food).
As one who is forced to buy fresh foods due to severe intolerance of many processed, preserved and other ingredients (caffeine, MSG and nitrates, yeast and sugars, and most grains), I can tell you that eating *only* fresh whole foods is NOT cheap.
I never had allergies in my life until about eight years ago. Suddenly I became allergic to grasses (which include all grains), black pepper, dairy foods, and many of the processed/preserved ingredients and non-foods that are added to foods. About the only thing I can eat that’s still relatively real is dried beans ― and paleo experts now say they are bad for us.
I don’t use food stamps but there are times I wish I did; they would surely help pay for some of those expensive whole foods that I’m _required_ to eat for health’s sake.
Granted fresh whole foods ARE generally preferable and healthier and I’m grateful for that ― I happen to enjoy them better anyway, and at least I can “indulge” in good food. But have you priced beef, chicken and pork lately? Do you know how much fresh produce costs imported from Central and South America (and Mexico, thanks to NAFTA)? And prices are constantly rising.
And do you know what is injected into “real” food, or how it’s grown lately? One example: macaroni and cheese is not healthy, either frozen or made from scratch. Many grains have been doctored with GMO material or simply lost their nutritional values by processing, and there are added ingredients in most of cheese and milk. (“Enzymes” in cheese are often artificial hormones, “natamycin” now takes the place of penicillin or sulfa in dairy products, and “annato” [a plant grown in Africa and used for cheese coloring] is a known allergen to many people.) I can’t see where frozen or homemade makes any difference as far as what the food-stampers buy.
David Gross — You’ve got a point. I admit I wasn’t my best self in that moment.
Laird — The tomato plants never left her cart, so she did get them. I just can’t remember a moment when they actually got rung up, so she may have gotten them free just to get her out of there. I’m sure you’re right about her not being able to buy them with the EBT card & I also agree that food plants are a better idea than junk food for people on SNAP.
I admire your patience, or maybe I should say restraint, Claire.
There’s many times I’m shopping for one or two things that is paid for in change. I pre count to the closest dollar, ahead of time, and while the clerk is counting that out I have the odd extra amount ready to hand to her. Because of this, I aim to do my shopping after 10 pm when the lines/other shoppers are sparse. Never fails, tho, that the only other people in line ahead of me have what I call those “cards from hell” and take forever to ring up. Never fails that those people also have babies/small kids with them and I’m always amazed they’re out so late.
You’d be surprised at how many dirty looks paying with change gets me, LOL. Clerks are just as spoiled by (any kind of) cards as the people using them are, hehe.
I’ve often thought that, if there should be any welfare for food at all, it should be only for rice and beans, bought in bulk – the same thing many latin Americans use to survive on. Maybe milk, if you have kids. Give people some incentive to get off the dole.
There is an old book out there by Ralph Moody called “Little Britches”, sort of a “Little House on the Prairie” for boys:
http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/product/Little-Britches,671954.aspx
People should read it to see how very different it was in this country. They were left destitute when his father died. Ralph would walk along the railroad tracks, picking up coal that fell off trains, to keep them warm in the winter. The one thing they absolutely would not do, is accept charity (never mind welfare). They thought it was shameful.
I think if it ever occurred to somebody to introduce in Congress a bill limiting food welfare to rice and beans, the collectivists would slap it down and complain it is harmful to the dignity of the recipients. But dignity is one thing the recipients do not have at all.
Beans, Rice, Tortillas and Peppers please.
[I’ve often thought that, if there should be any welfare for food at all, it should be only for rice and beans, bought in bulk]
If I ran welfare it would be:
1. Make out a budget. What are your assets and expenditures? If you don’t know how, we’ll help.
2. No more food stamps. No more “you can only live in Section 8 housing.” No more “you can only use government contract day care.” The help you get will be based on what you really need, not on what some guy in D.C. thinks you are “qualified for.” If your mother can provide day care, fine. If you can live with your sister, great.
3. You get cash, just like everyone else. You are responsible for using it to make your life better. As you learn to food-shop wisely, you can use what you save however you need it.
4. If you need more training on life skills, here are resources you can use.
5. Now, go run your own darn life.
” You get cash, just like everyone else.” Cash from where? If a private charity chose to use your points, no problem.
Er….one more thing…..re credit cards. I use/pay with cash. I don’t have any credit catds nor will I ever. Why? several reasons. One is the damm credit card companies are getting paid on both ends. I costs the store money as well as a lot of consumers….those consumers that carry a debit over a month. Two, I consider them a privacy invasion as well….no credit card company has to know where I spend my money….and neither does the damm government! Three, say something happens to a person….loss of a job, illness, reduction or loss of income….now you are behind the eight ball as far as staying current on your account. For the same reason re privacy….I do not subscribe to store bonus cards or discount cards. No damm store has to keep a record of what I buy! Do I write checks, yes, I do…..at the most maybe rwo a month. I use cash! And no….I do not let it sit in a bank.
Curt S.
I can certainly sympathize with some of your points on credit/store discount cards, but let me rebut a little, if you please.
1. While credit companies *do* charge the store, I don’t give a rat’s ass about other consumers having to pay exorbitant interest because they don’t know how to handle money. I use one card, no annual payment and paid off every month, mostly for the convenience to myself.
2. I *don’t* use it for anything I don’t want tracked.
3. If something *does* happen to me, we have no outstanding balance, so I’m not behind the eight ball.
4. in re store discount cards, the same caveat applies to privacy. Not only do I not use them for things I don’t want tracked,, but I frequently offer the person in line ahead of me a swipe of my card if they don’t have one, is it will save them a little money. Both the customer and the cashier are amused when I tell them I like to play head games with the store’s database – the store doesn’t need to know that the pickled beets and the Stilton are not mine.
Those cards are fine if you use them wisely.
Out here we have WIC.
I saw a young lady get milk,eggs,cheese and a very few other items I dont recall but was proper nutritional food (if we still have any)
Anyhow it made my day seeing the money go to someone using it like it should be used,Kudos to her.
One of the problems with welfare are the incentives the recipients face. If you are sitting around here designing a better welfare system, the incentives have to push the recipients off welfare. If you don’t do that you will guarantee a permanent dependent class. Handing out cash based on income is the wrong incentive, as it gives an incentive not to work (success at work translates into losing the subsidy). And the cash can be used for drugs and booze, too.
Nope, giving rice and beans is far better, although I don’t think they should be supplied by government. This sort of thing used to be handled by churches, and I don’t see what was wrong with that.
Great line! – “The process takes more deliberation than the Syrian peace talks.”
She probably didn’t want to tell those behind her sorry about the wait because she would have risked making eye-contact with lots of judgemental stares — or that is what she expected to see. Better to keep your eyes down or at the cashier, who was reaching out in love. Likely she carries some shame from using the welfare, or never finishing high school, or being from the generation where girls were just assumed to be “bad at math”. Without those spices she couldn’t make the dinner she planned, and for that she would see more critical faces, and hear critical words. And who could possibly count the number of disappointed faces she has seen from her parents? That cashier, acting from a full heart, might have been the only thing that got her through the day.
Sometimes we can do so much to help others, (sometimes waiting patiently is all we can muster). But greater than all of these is love.
Cash from where? If a private charity chose to use your points, no problem.
Okay, presuming there’s going to be a government welfare system, how can it best work?
One of the problems with welfare are the incentives the recipients face.
Which is the purpose of starting with a budget, and trying to make the rest of system as close to reality as possible.
Handing out cash based on income is the wrong incentive, as it gives an incentive not to work (success at work translates into losing the subsidy).
So set up a system that provides incentives to work, which doesn’t penalize things like getting married, etc. Carrot instead of stick.
And the cash can be used for drugs and booze, too.
Yes, it can. But designing a system that tries to make all of the client’s decisions doesn’t promote independence. Nor does it work.
[But designing a system that tries to make all of the client’s decisions doesn’t promote independence. Nor does it work.]
So… handing out cash does promote independence?
[Okay, presuming there’s going to be a government welfare system, how can it best work?]
Why would you presume that? All evidence points to a broken system, a crash, in the near-term future. And all those people who are dependent on it are at risk of dying. And they may bring the rest of us with them, depending on how the ruling class responds.
The poor were doing just fine before Lyndon Johnson decided to “help” them.
The more reasonable presumption is that shortly there won’t be any welfare at all.
Anyway we can design welfare solutions to our heart’s content; it means exactly nothing. What happens will happen and we have no say in it. About all we can affect are those very local to us. So if you are feeling charitable, help them out – if you think help actually is helpful, despite the evidence to the contrary.
I worked as a cashier in a grocery store back in college. It got to where I could spot the food-stamp users from a mile off. Their attitude, their kids running around uncontrolled, the junk food in their cart, it was always the same.
Except once.
There was a woman who came through my line. Her kids were saints. Her cart was full of flour, vegetables, and other basic staples. No candy, no soda, no cheetoes. When she handed me her card, she looked so humiliated that I tried to do my best to make it as painless as possible.
I never saw her again, but of the thousands of customers I dealt with during those years, she’s the only one whose face I still remember.
If I could change the way food stamps worked, I would make it so it would only buy flour, rice, beans, powdered milk, vegetables, and food-producing plants or seeds. That last one would give people a way to help themselves instead of staying dependent.
In Wisconsin, people are supposed to be able to buy plants and seeds with food stamps, but whether or not they really can depends on how the store’s cash register was programmed. The welfare program here also does not count food-producing property as part of your assets when deciding whether or not you qualify for assistance. So if you own vacant land and have an orchard or a garden, it’s not held against you. I think that’s one of the few rules they have that I actually agree with.