Today totally sucked. Today was totally blessed. That’s not as eloquent as, “It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.” But that line’s already taken.
Some of what follows is pretty personal. Don’t click on the more link if you hate that stuff.
The suckage. You may know I’ve recently been dealing with a chronic boundary violator. And I’ve written about boundary violators before and before and before and before, so it can be a painful subject for me, and for a lot of people. I know.
These violations have been both professional and personal, including the one type that’s most awkward and difficult of all: dealing with a person who has “special” feelings about me and simply refuses to acknowledge that I have no such feelings for him — don’t want to and never will.
I hold my line. No means no. But he’s undeterred. He backs off for a while. Apologizes. Comes back and does the same thing. I thought I’d taken steps to end the problem. But no. Today it got to the point where words like “sexual harassment” and the old-fashioned “unwanted advances” came to mind.
The anguish of wanting to be rid of this ickiness while also not wanting to hurt a basically decent, well-meaning person has been eating my guts out. (He says all he wants is my happiness; I believe that. He’s not oozing on me or anything. He just won’t accept that his relentless pursuit is not my happiness and is, in fact, a squirming misery.)
The problem will be solved. I will solve it (with a little help from my friends; thanks, Ms You-Know-Who.) But today will never go down in the books as a great day. My gut aches. My head aches. My heart aches. My brain? Well, it simply seethes with outrage and the frustration of being unable to get someone to understand the simple word N-O.
—–
The wonderfulness. Late in the afternoon I stopped by the post office and there was a package holding a huge, whopping contribution to the roof fund — $500, along with a beautiful card and a photo of a roof under construction that’s prettier than my roof will ever be and made me smile.
$500. I’d say I’m shocked speechless — except that the people who sent this, the devotedly freedomista Family A., have done things like this before. And I’ve been blessed to be on the receiving end of their tithes.
Yes, tithes. The A. family are devout Christians and this is simply what they do. Instead of giving 10 percent of their income to a church (though for all I know, churches may get some), they give to people.
Now the A. clan — especially a certain member with whom I’ve had several intelligent but sadly head-banging talks — know I’m not a believer. They wish it were otherwise. A bible verse — yes, about roofs 🙂 — came with this gift. And that, too, made me smile.
But I am what I am and they are as they are. I cherish them for their kindness and often wish I could fathom and accept for myself the religious mystery they live by. But I can’t. And they accept me as I am, flawed to the max, not the believer they surely wish I were.
And from them I feel no pressure at all. Just kindness beyond measure from their own amazing hearts and from — they would no doubt tell me — a source beyond understanding.
If you have any tips for dealing with that “icky” middle ground that lies between “no, thank you” and the restraining order, I’d love to hear them.
I started keeping a cheap gold-ish ring in my pocket when I go to work, so I can slip it on and pretend to be married. I had to try something! For some reason, there were too many guys who thought “I don’t date” meant “I’m an easy target for your codependency and dysfunctions.”
That or they thought dating their QA auditor would get them a better score. But given that it’s happened before in places where I wasn’t a QA auditor, I don’t think that’s it.
Depending on state law you might check out tresspass. A warning usually doesn’t have the legal implications of a prtective or restraining order.
Once you get to that level, though, you need a backup plan that includes a concealed handgun.
If I’m taking this more seriously than I should, it’s my background. I’ve seen too many situations escalate.
Wow…..first of all, nearly 3 grand is amazing :):):) You have some really great friends and really good people hanging around here. And it didn’t take long, either. Shows how much respect people have for you too – which probably is how the flip side of this post happens, one of them has to take that to the worse extreme. Altho, sounds like it’s not really a respectful situation. I would say maybe you are being to nice about hurting this person’s feelings – at the expense of yourself. Sometimes that sends mixed messages, even if you don’t intend it that way, and maybe just getting strict about no (and cutting off all contact, don’t reply) is what it’ll take. Sometimes we have to put the bitch part to work even if we hate being bitches.
I’m no expert, but I just usually say no. No explanation, no softening the no. Just no. The times I have offered either of those it seemed to just open the door to “the challenge”. The explanations always seem to illicit a million questions back, the softening part seems to make them think I’m not serious and just playing a game or whatever (or worse, indecisive). So, I just drop the no. If it’s a situation where you still have to talk to them (coworker) just keep it non personal and if the conversation reverts to that, just no.
I have noticed that strong, independent women tend to attract the people (of either sex, actually) who aren’t. And the ones with “other issues” too. They see a security and strength that they don’t have and either want to be it or leech onto it. And my experiences have been if it’s men and I do get involved then they set out to change me or stomp that spirit right into the ground. They admire it and then they try to squash it…..For the ones who want to “be it”, one day you suddenly notice you’re doing all the work and they’re still trying to catch up – and realize it will always be that way. Same happens with the leech-types. And heaven forbid if you’re happy, then you’ll have all those kinds of people bugging you/wanna be like/with you.
The older I get the less patience I have for all that, LOL.
(and I am not a feminist, nor one of those “manhaters”, I’m just in love with freedom more)
Best thing I can offer is that no word. I know you’re tripped up by that word cuz I have read all the posts. This time you shouldn’t hesitate to put yourself first.
At this point I would start to worry about escalation ― this person is NOT going to go away. I think you mentioned once before that you’ve been stalked. While the circumstances of knowing these people may have started differently, this person’s actions may be heading down the same path. Don’t let it go further.
As LarryA says, you’re going to have to take some legal action to let him know you are serious about refusing his advances into your life. But in all honesty, I doubt Authority will take it seriously enough at this point. Is there anyone you know socially in the Law or Order field whom you could talk to for advice on how to discourage this person before it gets worse?
Bless Clan A! As naturegirl said, you(and Joel) have some amazing good friends! They’re the kind of folks who keep me believing in Chrisitianity.
All I can hope is that your admirer will read your post, realize that his attentions are unwanted and causing you this turmoil and back off. On the other hand, he may not recognize himself and become more persistent in order to ward off this competitor who you’re complaining about. Sounds like it’s devolving into a stalker situation. Shame you can’t find some way to make yourself less wonderful and appealing.
I wish I could offer help – I can’t, instead I’m here watching in the hope of gaining some insights.
My only observation is that individuals with boundary problems seem to deeply resent bumping into well defined boundaries.
That whole “demonstrate commitment and investment in” schtik might have an evolutionary basis (might!)
it certainly has a dysfunctional basis – in individuals who constantly test commitment – until they finally succeed in destroying it and then celebrate with new misery, the confirmation of their deeply held insecurity that everyone deserts them in the end…
then, like generals, still fighting the last war, the prey stumbles off, to repeat the newly learned dysfunctionality that they’ve been infected with.
“…not wanting to hurt a basically decent, well-meaning person…”
I don’t know this person, of course, but my experience and my guts tell me this guy has you conned… It is far more likely he is a narcist, quite possibly a sociopath. If he was truly a decent, well meaning person, this would not be happening because he would have understood and accepted your “no” from the beginning. If he truly was interested in your comfort and best interests, this would have been resolved the first day. He’s not your friend, no matter what he says or does.
Don’t know what you can do legally, but there are a number of practical things that must happen or you risk much. First, you’ve got to get over worrying about hurting his feelings! It’s gone far past that point. You may need to consider carrying all the time. Whatever game he’s playing may turn deadly with no more warning. Ugly and uncomfortable facts, yes… but please take it seriously.
“The anguish of wanting to be rid of this ickiness while also not wanting to hurt a basically decent, well-meaning person has been eating my guts out. (He says all he wants is my happiness; I believe that. He’s not oozing on me or anything. He just won’t accept that his relentless pursuit is not my happiness and is, in fact, a squirming misery.) ”
This guy is not a basically decent, well meaning person. He IS NOT listening to you, he says all he wants is your happiness, but the part you left out is and he alone knows what that is. One advance that is turned down is ok, you have to try, right? Two advances is the limit, after that, if a guy, (or girl) doesn’t respect you enough to quit, do you REALLY want to ever have a relationship with them?
Thanks, guys. Good insights and support as usual.
I have a professional relationship with this person that I value (and need) even with its problems. I have no personal relationship with him and have told him repeatedly and firmly that I don’t want one. I don’t fear him and don’t believe he’s a sociopath; but obsessive, yes, and highly, highly disrespectful and bullheaded in believing that he knows what’s better for me than I know myself.
I’ve already diminished the professional relationship and will dump it completely if he tries one more time to push his way into my life — and I told him that yesterday in blunt terms.
As to restraining orders & everyday carry … he doesn’t live near me nor do I think he’s dangerous. But if I ever get an inkling that he might turn up on my doorstep, condition yellow will definitely go to orange or red, as circumstances warrant.
Thanks especially for voice-of-experience perspectives. Ellendra, I laughed at your wedding-ring story while also shaking my head. How sad that you should have to pretend, just to have a little peace.
On the good side, indeed I am blessed and privileged and lifted up every day by the quality of my friends and supporters. Every time I feel down on myself, feel inadequate, feel as though I’ve accomplished nothing and never will, I think about the caliber of people around me. And I realize I can’t be be all that bad to have attracted so much strength, intelligence, wisdom, and goodness.
I got to put up with a particularly predatory sadist a few weeks back (he’s weedled his way into “friendship” with a few of my extended family, but he shows a very different face to me when they’re not present – and seems to really enjoy watching my discomfort at hiss veiled threats and his ego trips – which were usually in the form of torturing a family member’s livestock)
anyway – while looking around for info and insights into abusers, I found this explanation of a process of distorting and breaking down another person’s boundaries – after a silly start, i found it quite interesting. http://youtu.be/SvUiJ6oVXIw?list=UUU9xNc-P8GWAdafmAcNVi6g
Keith — “torturing a family member’s livestock”??? And this guy’s anybody’s friend??? Shudder! Gads, I hope you’re able to shuck him off and warn the others.
Many years ago, I had “that kind” of stalker. Your guy definitely sounds dangerous.
Thanks for the link. The sound quality isn’t good on my system but I’ll dig up my speakers and give it a listen.
All I can hope is that your admirer will read your post, realize that his attentions are unwanted and causing you this turmoil and back off. On the other hand, he may not recognize himself and become more persistent in order to ward off this competitor who you’re complaining about.
I see that Claire has already directly addressed the issue with the person involved, but when I read this I thought, “The joker in question will be the one guy in Claire’s life who doesn’t immediately ask ‘is she talking about me? God, I hope she isn’t talking about me,’ ” 🙂
Yes, that would be the way of it, wouldn’t it?
I laugh — bitterly, but I laugh.
http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=897
Thanks Claire 🙂 The creep at my end has got his feet well under the table – however, I do have a cunning plan, by chance I found out that a highly respected neighbour doesn’t like him either.
the neighbour’s words will set the rot in 100 times more effectively than mine are likely to – prophets at home and all of that.
I find it quite disturbing that I have to battle with my own self doubts; is it me? do I somehow deserve this? am I really that obvious a target? rather than concentrating on the fact that abusive actions show that this guy has zero respect for my family members as soon as their backs are turned.
Which reminds me, I’ll go now and see if I can “accidentally on purpose” bump into the neighbour.
Keith — Hope your cunning plan works. It’s a strange thing with genuine sociopaths; they can get people to be so loyal to them that honest folk who try to warn others get ignored or sneered at. Sometimes the very people they’re about to victimize will be their most loyal defenders. Ugh.
LarryA — Okay, that was weird. Has a certain bizarre familiarity in the thinking. But … weird.
Look for a professional associate to replace this fellow. Don’t wait for “next time” – if you are writing here about him, it’s already “next time”. There are a lot of fishies in the sea.
I had the same reaction MamaLiberty did. He’s not so decent, well-meaning after all, is he? Not if he’s causing you trouble.
After you find his replacement, tell him why he lost your business and if necessary, don’t be shy about shouting and cussing him out if needed. Never get into explanations or anything of that nature. Some people are like mules, they need a 2×4 upside the head to get their attention; softer methods don’t work. (Just joking, but you get the picture.)
As to Christians and other faithful, I thank Heaven (heh!) I finally figured out to stop making fun of religion. There are a lot of nice people out there.
OK…. the creepazoid isn’t living close to you. Big sigh of relief!! And I suspect you will need to disassociate yourself eventually, in any case. Just concerned that he may be able to locate you physically. So easy to do these days, especially if he has the right skills or contacts.
But, in all reality, no place is free of risk, and creepazoids can be found anywhere, all shapes and sizes. You don’t always get much lead time to deal with them either. Being willing and able to identify them early is just so important. Trust your guts… if someone creeps you out, don’t work to over ride it! Do what you need to do to defend yourself and never lose sight of the fact that they alone are responsibility for their “feelings.”
Am I the only one suspecting the handyman right now?
“Am I the only one suspecting the handyman right now?”
Well, I don’t think its the Butler in the Closet with the Candlestick. ; )
On another note, Claire, here’s one for your Amazon bookstore. A Pro-Gun message in a book for kids.
http://www.amazon.com/Parents-Open-Carry-Brian-Jeffs/dp/1618081012/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407612133&sr=1-1&keywords=my+parents+open+carry
No, I thought about the handyman too.
But I also wondered if he had Claire’s email, phone number, or street address, which would mean he lived at a distance. If the relationship is “professional”, he could be anything, including another writer, or he might be one of her clients.
ROFLMAO, no! The handyman — who is my age — has himself a 24-year-old girlfriend who is sweet as cotton candy and dumb as dirt and loves him devotedly. More power to the both of them.
MamaLiberty said everything I would say. Having been there and done that, my perception is that you are in danger and this person is a very experienced sociopath who is focused on destroying you one way or another. Disrupting your life, having your guts tied in a knot, is one way of destroying you. He is NOT a nice, kind, well-meaning person. He knows what he is doing and the effect it is having on you and it is highly likely he is smugly chortling over every minute of it and feeling very powerful and satisfied with himself. The Law can’t and won’t protect you. Kindness will only encourage him. So will any indication that you are afraid of /annoyed by/ having your life disrupted by him. One of the biggest dangers to you, and what sociopaths count on, is that you don’t think he is dangerous. He is. You might try condescending pity, identifying that he is a sociopath, and suggestions of professional mental health help before he hurts himself and/or someone else because like all sociopaths, he is on that road. Please take seriously what MamaLiberty said and what I wrote.
Stop worrying about his feelings.
He is apparently too dense to even think about yours, other than what he thinks you should think in his internal script.
Tell him not only no, but hell no. Tell him you think he is creepy, do not want anything to do with him, and if he continues you will get a restraining order.
If you have to get the order, be aware that it is merely a hunting license for assholes. If he violates it, pull a pistol on him. If he doesn’t flee, shoot his sorry ass.
Stop being nice to social retards.
You guys are right. And Kristophr, you said it as pointedly and succinctly as it could be said.
I still find it hard to believe this guy is dangerous (though definitely I’m not going to go all condition white on him, ever).
But you are entirely correct that I’ve been, at best, self-deluded by sympathy. A person who has another’s happiness in mind would never try to break down the other’s will by badgering them to go against their own wishes.
I was going to say to this person, “If you’d had my happiness in mind, you’d have backed down the first or second time I said no to you.” Then I realized that the real thing that need saying (too late!) is, “Claire, if you’d have been smart, you’d have gotten away from the situation the second time this guy refused to take no for an answer.”
So mea culpa — and thank you for helping me see it. I’ve written before about defending boundaries, but in the complexities of the situation I failed to see clearly or heed my own wisdom.
I’ve been away from the computer most of this weekend, painting and washing to car and doing other sweaty, needed things. I’ll try to get back this evening to write something worth reading. Meantime, thanks for continuing to make the place worth visiting.
Well, I don’t think I’d ever tell anyone I might get a restraining order. Do, or don’t.
ROs have two purposes. First, he might respect it. It is a clear line, and usually involves him getting lectures by authority figures.
Second, if he doesn’t respect it he’s breaking the law, which makes him the “bad guy” in the eyes of the court. The RO and all the evidence you provided to get it is usually admissible if you have to use force or deadly force.
That said, Claire’s been around. She’s the one who’s there, and her judgment is more valid than our second-guessing.
Hmmm, what if your handyman reads your blog?
Paul — Well, then his little girlfriend (who I really do like) won’t be so cotton-candy sweet where I’m concerned. But I doubt that’ll happen. The handyman (or actually ex-handyman now) doesn’t even have Internet.
I can’t think of a euphemism for someone who’s not the brightest – that isn’t likely to be at least as offensive to them if they saw it, as saying outright that they’re thick.
Even if there was such a euphemism – would it be any use? would the intended audience share sufficeint points of reference for enough of us to get it?
Hi Claire,
Could’ves, would’ves and should’ves can be great ways to beat our selves up for the abuser.
An ex of mine recently had a nasty experience with some sort of psychopath / narcissist – whatever. She’s since found a number of blogs by and for people who’ve fallen prey to such critters, and feelings of guilt and self blame seem to be one of the prime tools that the critters use, and leave behind.
You’ve spotted the abuse for what it is and you’re now planning effective action to avoid any more.
if you see the critter again – just remember that if you get crimp right accross the sack, the whole thing will go gangrenous and drop off, get the cords to the side of the sack before you crimp them… http://www.medical-tools.com/shop/burdizzo-castration-forceps.html ::/tongue in cheek::
Love Kristophr’s answer, short and to the point and no bullshit about it.
I don’t have much faith in restraining orders. And waiting for “authorities” to show up isn’t worth what you loose. I personally know of a woman who had a RO and multiple court appearances about it and multiple arrests of the husband who ignored all of that and did what he wanted to anyway. It’s over now because he did manage to kill her eventually.
I love Kristophr’s description of a restraining order as a hunting license. Perfect description for it.
I’m in two minds about the sharing of the allusion to hunting a license.
Let’s say someone who has shared that thought, later has the huge misfortune of needing to send a stronger message to a creepy individual who doesn’t listen to “no”
If that creepy individual doesn’t heed the court order, and an event occurs where more rigorous means are needed to prevent serious harm…
I’m not saying that a jury would convict – but you could still have a hard time defending against the allegation, based on your internet activities, that the restraining order hadn’t been part of a process of pre meditation and alibi building, rather than part of a measured and proportionate series of responses to the actual aggressor.
I used to have a nervous laugh at bumper stickers that read “keep the country tidy – kill a tourist” , when I wondered how the owner of the sticker would explain it if they were ever involved in a fatal accident where a tourist died.
I don’t really think a restraining order is a hunting license. It’s a defense against another aggressor, the State. Unfortunately it requires one’s submission to a State institution to avail yourself of that defense. It’s a permission to defend oneself.
Paul:
Correct.
But it does make you look better in court if some overzealous prosecutor has a hard-on for people who exercise their basic human right of self-defense.