A Review
The Testament of James
By Vin Suprynowicz
194 pages
December 2014, Mountain Media
The Testament of James begins, as good mysteries often do, with a death. Actually, TToJ begins with an imposing figure in a black cape sweeping in through the door of a rare book dealer, which may be even better.
The death? Well, that may have been from natural causes, though in unnatural circumstances. The caped, cultured Mediterranean man enters the scene to inquire about a book. A book that may have had something to do with the death. A book that may or may not even exist.
The is-it-or-isn’t-it book is an ancient manuscript copy of a document written by James, the brother of Jesus. If it exists, if it is ever uncovered, it will blow the orthodox, authoritarian Pauline version of Christianity right off the map. It may have arrived at the bookstore, leading to the death of the manager. But if so, where is it now?
The elegant stranger isn’t the only person seeking James’ testament. Others — powerful, wealthy, connected, ruthless — also want it.
This puts bookstore owner Matthew Hunter in a quandry. He and his friends (particularly his once-and-future love, Chantal Stevens) must find the book if it exists, authenticate it, figure out who’s who among those who crave the tome, and decide what’s best to do with the volume — all the while keeping themselves alive and safe (which isn’t always easy).
If The DaVinci Code comes to mind (and I’m sure it will, to Vin’s eternal despair), forget it. Although a biblical mystery, TToJ is a simpler, shorter, less frenetic, and all its action takes place within a few days and a few miles of Books on Benefit (in Providence, Rhode Island, which is both H.P. Lovecraft territory and Edgar Allan Poe territory, you might notice). Its conclusion is also a heck of a lot more relevant than the one in the famous Dan Brown book (but I’ll let Vin have his say about that, in the following multi-part interview).
At a scant 200 pages, TToJ serves in part as an introduction to Matthew, Chantal, and their friends (who are set to become continuing characters), though it definitely also tells a story worth telling. I received my copy on Christmas Eve and had devoured it before getting out of bed on Christmas morning.
If I have one criticism of TToJ, it’s that some of the “local color” (e.g. encounters with particularly obnoxious book store customers) sometimes slows down the action. But that’s a pretty minor complaint. The local color does help establish the world and the attitudes of Matthew Hunter (which is good; it means SEQUELS!). And the little asides are often quite amusing in themselves. Anybody who has to deal regularly with idiots or ignorami will relate.
This is a good read and it’s very cool to know that sequels are already in the works. Next up? The Miskatonic Manuscript. Followers of the Cthulu Mythos can speculate where that might lead!
For more about TToJ, I refer you to Tom Knapp (here and here). Everything he says is spot on.
There are four ways right now to get a copy.
Signed, limited, first-edition hardbounds:
Via ABE Books
Via Freedom’s Phoenix (checks accepted)
$32.50 + postage (NFI on my part)
Ebooks:
Amazon Kindle edition $5.99
Via Carl-Bear Bussjaeger FREE! (Limited time only, limited number only, specify MOBI or EPUB)
Now on to the first part of my interview with Vin:
Q. Why did you choose to write on the topic of the bible and censorship? Some will think this is pretty far afield for you.
A. My theme, I think, has always been freedom versus the burgeoning state, which usually comes disguised as “We’re here to help you” but with amazing speed turns into “It was his own fault; if he’d just followed orders they wouldn’t have had to shoot him.”
The Bill of Rights was designed to limit or slow that trend on this continent, it was the promise to rein in Hamiltonian government. It has largely failed, because those who seek power can always hire a clever lawyer to dance his way around a bastion of mere words. We’re now assured the Second Amendment never REALLY meant we should be able to carry around enough state-of-the-art military weaponry to back down any SWAT team or element of the 101st Airborne they might ever send to disarm us, the way General Gage sent his troops to Concord in 1775. We’re now assured the Fourth Amendment never REALLY meant armed goons couldn’t barge into your house on a pretext that the social worker reported you for “dirty house” or “refuses to get her kids all their shots,” at which point OF COURSE it’s OK for them to seize your marijuana (which George Washington used to grow) and your guns and your pornography WITHOUT A WARRANT BASED ON AFFIDAVITS DULY SWORN, SPECIFICALLY NAMING those items, and take away your children and send them to foster care, where they’re statistically far more likely to be murdered . . . all because some politically appointed judge who used to work as a prosecutor ruled that was “in keeping with the intent of the Fourth Amendment, given the state’s legitimate interest in effective police work.” Insert masturbatory gesture here.
When was the last time a cop went to prison for committing perjury on one of those “affidavits duly sworn” which was used to get a warrant to bust into the wrong house? Never. These cops don’t even go to prison for shooting unarmed children. Ergo, those protections are gone; they’re laughable.
And if breaking in our doors isn’t enough, what could be a more hideous tyranny than an attempt to control, on threat of prison, what we can do within our own thoughts and minds?
So I’m sorry, I don’t see where writing a new series of books about the freedom of religion, which means specifically the freedom and the supreme survival value to our civilization of people being “allowed” to seek a non-government-controlled awareness, a prophetic state, by consuming psychoactive entheogens, plant sacraments including psilocybin and peyote, in the privacy of our own homes or lodges, is at all “far afield” from documenting and resisting the War Against Freedom. Nor is writing books about how modern “science” is ignoring all kinds of phenomena that are right there in front of their eyes, probably because these areas aren’t good sources of Pentagon research grants and they’re afraid of looking silly in the eyes of their peers -– which is “The Misaktonic Manuscript.”
Probably you mean there are people out there who think that once they come to think of a writer as “that guy who just writes about guns,” or “that gal who just writes about moving to the country and living in a Hobbit burrow,” that’s all we should be “allowed” to write about.
Anyone with any kind of “fan base” is going to face that choice. I don’t mean to malign Frankie Avalon or Peter Noone from Herman’s Hermits or any of those guys who play 4 p.m. oldies shows for the senior citizens here in Vegas — if they still enjoy performing and it puts food on the table, God bless ‘em, everybody’s happy. But the more interesting guys to me are the ones who never allowed themselves to become an animatronic version of their own wax sculpture from Madame Tussaud’s. Look at how many times Bob Dylan has re-invented himself. When he plugged in his guitar they screamed “He’s supposed to be folk music, he shouldn’t be playing rock ‘n roll!” Then it was “What the hell is he doing in Nashville with Johnny Cash?” and then “He’s playing with the Grateful Dead? Has he lost his mind? He must be on drugs!”
See Rick Nelson’s “Garden Party.”
Yes, you can go wrong by expanding into what they’ll perceive as new fields, there’s always a risk of failure. But what favor are you doing either yourself or your readers if you never launch yourself beyond your previous comfort zone, poor Sue Grafton trying to come up with a title for her 24th Kinsey Millhone mystery, knowing it has to start with the letter “X”?
I wouldn’t have decided to write about a dealer in antique books just so my heroes could romp around trying to find a signed manuscript of “Wuthering Heights” or “Midsummer Night’s Dream” so they can make a million dollars. Those aren’t books that readers are really likely to encounter, in the first place, and who cares if they make a million dollars? But if there’s a book that could prove Christianity has been twisted over the years to serve the purposes of a dominator culture that just wants to conquer and subjugate, that they’re once again barring the path in the very way that a brilliant barefoot rabble-rouser named Jesus accused the Jewish priests of his time of barring the path of those who sought the Kingdom of God first-hand, I find THAT interesting.
They recently conducted a public opinion poll in Cairo that asked people if they were in favor of freedom of religion. Overwhelmingly, Egyptians said “Yes.” They then asked them if they thought Islam should be mandatory. Overwhelmingly, those same Egyptians said “Yes.” To Muslims, “freedom of religion” means “freedom to practice Islam.” Americans tend to laugh at that result; we believe we’re so far superior to that, because we embrace real religious tolerance and pluralism. But do we, really?
Americans think when you go to your place of worship on Saturday or Sunday, it’s OK if the hymns you sing and the sermon you hear are Protestant, or if they’re Catholic. Heck, it’s even OK if you’re Jewish, maybe even Muslim. They don’t have a position on Hinduism because they’re largely unaware of it.
But if I tell you the only way you’re ever going to really hear the voice of God, understand the wonder of his creation by again seeing it the way a child sees it, is to consume a plant sacrament like magic mushrooms or peyote as part of your religious observance? Suddenly your Americans start to sound a lot more like our Egyptian friends: “That’s not the kind of ‘religion’ we meant to allow! That’s drug use! You should go to prison for that! You might get stoned and drive your car into someone! Pretty soon you’ll be indoctrinating children into drug use!”
Like in order to not take advantage of children at an impressionable age, they don’t start to indoctrinate kids into THEIR bizarre religious preconceptions before they’re 18? Look at the schoolchildren chanting these absurd Global Warming mantras of the Green Religion while they’re “on government time.” Our government is supposedly banned from any “establishment of religion,” but what’s the Environmental Protection Agency but a tax-subsidized priesthood of the Church of Deep Green, trying to ban carbon dioxide, for heaven’s sake? And the exemption they’ve carved out for members of the Native American Church to use peyote under strict government supervision, but only for Indians of “at least 50 percent blood,” which means an Indian man can’t share his religion with his son who may be of “only 37 percent Indian blood” is pathetic and racist and embarrassing. And I’ve been writing about that for decades.
Q. You obviously have close-up knowledge of the used/rare book business. For those of us who didn’t know that, would you tell a little about your experience?
A. Sure. The brunette [ed. note: Vin’s partner, who many of us remember as Cat Farmer) knows vintage clothes; when Cat came West she found a lot of that stuff was going unappreciated at estate sales in these parts, so she started Cat’s Curiosities, initially on a small scale; I think she’s now one of the biggest dealers at the Charleston Antique Mall on Decatur Boulevard in Las Vegas.
I pitched in and contributed a vintage book-and-record segment of the operation, probably six years ago, so we’d have a little more diversity of offerings and I’ve have something to do on the weekends while Cat was digging through the boxes of old clothes from the ‘50s and ‘60s that these people were about to throw away. I came from a family where there were always thousands of books around, I did a radio show when I was in college, playing old jazz 78s and creating some radio theater, so it was a good fit. And it was obvious quite a while ago that the old model, where you work for the same outfit till you’re 65 and then you get a gold watch and a nice pension, was dead. You’ve got to watch for opportunities, develop multiple income streams that aren’t going to collapse when the daily newspaper industry collapses, which it did.
Some other experienced booksellers in Las Vegas were very generous with their time, showing me the ropes. The brick-and-mortar part of the vintage business has gotten a little tougher during six years of economic non-recovery; a lot of customers just can’t pay the prices they might have paid back when they had full-time jobs. First came print-on-demand and then the e-book, and it’s always been a minority that looks at books as collectible objects, anyway. So I’ve now branched out and I sell some of the better stock at Cat’s Curiosities Online, which is also where you’ll find the hardcover edition of The Testament of James. We find plenty of buyers in more bookish cultures on the East coast and in Europe and even Japan. Although our rooms at the mall in Las Vegas are still well-stocked, seven days a week from 10 to 6.
My dad used to take me to used book stores when I was a kid; it was our family recreation. I wish I’d been smarter about investing in stuff that’s gone up in value. We bought what we wanted to read; it’s only as an adult that I’ve figured out you’re better off buying a first printing in a nice dust jacket if you can afford it; it’s more likely to appreciate.
I lived in Providence for four or five years, back in the Reagan era, ran a weekly newspaper there; New York and New England are the place for antiquarian bookstores in this country, so basing this latest series of stories at a used book store in Providence felt right. I’m sure it’s a kind of idealized Providence, things I remember from 1984 have probably changed, but I think it’s pretty usual that fiction occurs in a world of the writer’s memory.
Q. Without giving away too many spoilers, it’s safe to say that The Testament of James has quite a lot to do with entheogens. Is this another area where you have significant personal experience — or is it more an intellectual interest?
A. Well, I don’t think you could write about entheogens, about psychoactive plant sacraments, if you had no experience of them. As a kid who went away to college in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s, that was a time when LSD and mescaline were prevalent, a lot of us had valuable experiences and of course the cliche that we’d fall into addiction and depravity turned out to be nonsense; psychoactive plants and molecules are not addictive. We simply gave up such things -– probably too thoroughly — because we found ourselves with jobs and families and they felt inconvenient and of course due to this absurd, heavy-handed, panicked government prohibition, so obtaining them meant keeping in touch with a quasi-criminal element.
But even if we weren’t in this weird environment where consuming a lot of these substances is technically illegal for most people in many places, I still think I’d hesitate to discuss my own practices and experiences in detail, because my goal isn’t to proselytize any specific course of action. The point is simply that people need to be free and encouraged to explore and find their own paths. I will say I know the people at the Peyote Way Church of God in Klondyke, Arizona. They’re very sober-minded folk, fine people. It’s an all-races church, and their Web site is a good place for people to start if they have a serious interest in some of these things, along with some of the books I’m listing in the bibliographies of this current series of novels.
I’m not in favor of restricting the use of these sacraments to just “clinical settings,” obviously, that’s the wrong direction entirely. But if this area is really new to people they might want to look at this, this, or this.
—–
Interview continues on Monday.
Very interesting. 🙂 Can’t wait to read more.
Hey, MamaLiberty. Vin was a little worried about the length of some of his answers, but I found the whole interview too interesting (and too very Vin) to cut. Glad you’re liking it.
As to the book, if I understand right you’re part of the in-crowd on that one, right? One of the early readers? If you review it or already have, please let me know.
Anyone who must take a hallucinogenic drug to get close to “God” is, in my humble opinion, a, psychopath. HOWEVER, I am positive it will get you close to the “god of this present evil world”. This is also why we have Vanilla, Chocolate, Strawberry, &, Butter Pecan, & so forth, ice cream. Ain’t that right Claire ?
Yes Ma’am, I’m working on it. Right now I’ve got entirely too much to say about it, and the big job will be to pare it down enough to be reader friendly without gutting it. 🙂
Never had any gripe about Vin and the length of his writing, except that there isn’t ever enough of it. I was actually surprised to see how short TTOJ turned out to be… and I’m holding him personally responsible to come up with more of the story in a timely fashion. 🙂
I love the characters and find it no distraction at all when they are developed, even if only marginally relevant to the story. Life is full of random and unrelated characters, and too many stories don’t include enough of them to be believable. Vin’s never had that problem.
Donald —
This is the main thing I detest about the narrow kind of Christianity I was raised with: One tiny slip-up, one wrong guess about what “God” wants, one step down an alternate path, and you’re not just mistaken or a little different, but you’re in league with the devil and deserve to be condemned to hell for all eternity. (And now it seems you’re a psychopath, too!)
This is one thing I detest about the government enforced, culturally saturated, mind-control we live under: Think or explore anything out of the mainstream and you’re risking your safety, your freedom, your reputation, and possibly your life merely because you’re looking for truth in unapproved places.
Always amazed to see control freaks stop by to comment on a blog like this.
Donald… go outside tonight and contemplate the stars for a while. The entity who created all that is most likely not the least interested in having you (or anyone else) attempt to speak for him/her…
Good response, ML. It always does seem as if “God” speaks most stridently in the voice of the most narrow-minded people.
Who was it who said (maybe not exact quote), “I don’t mind God. It’s his fan clubs I can’t stand”?
A friend emailed me the following after reading Donald’s comment. My friend isn’t comfortable posting in public forums, but did give me permission to post this:
Re: Donald… go outside tonight and contemplate the stars for a while. The entity who created all that is most likely not the least interested in having you (or anyone else) attempt to speak for him/her…
Will it enhance my experience IF I consume a little peyote first? Also, the word, God, is only a Title. I am familiar with the Elohim, are you? My heavenly Father does not require me to take any kind of drug, to be close to him, Neither does my Elder Brother, Yeshua, also called, Jesus.
Re: if only to remind us they’re still out there, voting in ballot boxes and jury rooms
You ASSume incorrectly. I DO NOT VOTE. I can not vote because I am not a citizen of the United States AND subject to its, not it is, but, ITS jurisdiction, not their jurisdiction, but, ITS jurisdiction. Btw, a citizen of the U.S. IS a subject of, The Federal Government. Accord, Kitchen n. Steele.
EXCUSE ME. Kitchen V. Steel. Want the cite? I would PRESUME you don’t need it.
Re: Psychopath?
Okey doak, I admit I should have used a better word, like, nuts, lamebrain, not all there, Btw, is this the reason why you are here? Is it because you are not all there” Huh?? Know what? Even if your entire laft side was completely SHEARED, you would STILL BE HALF RIGHT. HAHHAHhahhahhahhah hee haw
Oh brother… Donald, you can believe anything you like, and take whatever action you wish based on it. Just don’t presume to decide for anyone else.
Still trying to figure out just why you would want to read anything here, let alone comment. Except that you expect to control other people somehow, of course. Not happening here…
Claire, et.al., I have to take a nap. I will pray that the LORD will keep my soul,
anyway, If I should die before I awake, Claire, PLEASE PRAY THAT THE LORD
WILL WAKE ME UP BEFORE I DIE. Well hay-yulls FORE. Got that ass backurds.
Here we go, and now I lay me down to sleep I pray the LORD my soul to keep
but if I’m about to die before I awake, I pray that the LORD will wake me up
before I die. I need all of your prayers in this life or death matter. Thanks!!! Thanks “friends.”
Re: Except that you expect to control other people
You folks ASSUME a lot. I do not want to CONTROL ANYBODY. Besides, even if I did, how do I control out of control people like you OBVIOUSLY ARE?? You don’t get anywhere using your mind control on me. NAW SUH. Know what I mean, HILLBILLY ? HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHhahhahhahahahahahahah
My response to Claire’s friend’s post:
And yes, the wonderful myth of “mental illness.” Have you read anything by Thomas S. Szasz?
http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Mental-Illness-Foundations-Personal/dp/0061771228/
> “psychopath” is thus a person with a “dangerous mental illness” which justifies the state locking him up.
How does a state obtain any legitimate authority to decide who is “ill”
or justification to lock anyone up? We each have sovereign authority
over our lives and responsibility to defend ourselves from those who
would aggress against us.
I would say that anyone who wants to harm another is seriously ill, but I don’t have any desire or authority to lock him up in an attempt to prevent him from carrying out his diseased desires. All I can do is stop him in the act. Or cooperate with others to do the same. The idea that the state, or society as a collective of any kind, can determine who is “ill,” or who will cause harm in the future, and attempt to cage or kill them to prevent it, is the very foundation of prohibition “laws” and so much other evil.
Re: Oh brother… Donald, you can believe anything you like,……”
Wow !! thanks Mama. Really do appreciate your permission to do that. wow sounds too good to be true.
Hm. Methinks that the guy who so opposes experiencing magic mushrooms, funny flowers, and wacky weeds shows signs of experiencing some silly substances himself.
Re: How does a state obtain any legitimate authority
They don’t. It’s called, POWER, aka, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. With your apparent IQ level, what is it, around 40, anyway you ought to know they are hiring. It’s called, The Law Enfoecement Growth Agency.
Re: > Hm. Methinks
YOU DO??? I didn’t know that. Honey the medication I am on IS, TRUTH SERUM. It’s not your cup of TEA. HAHHAHHAHHAHhahhahhahhahhah.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law
Are there any EMULATIONS HERE on this AWESOME, HIGH QUALITY, UNIQUE Blog??
Donald —
You’re totally entitled to your ‘humble opinion’, as long as you realize you are NOT entitled to act upon it, as it isn’t any of your business as long as you’re not physically harmed in your life or property. Acting upon it would make YOU the psychopath. Just voicing it only makes you narrow-minded and, as long as you respect other people’s right to be left alone, that’s okay.
I have to agree that in this time and age using drugs (or any substance that you should be forcefully ‘protected’ from, in breach of your self-ownership) will get the user close to the sociopaths who equate themselves to ‘god’, in their fatal conceit of eternal and omnipotent wisdom, forming government, convinced that they are far better at (and allowed to) running that user’s life than (s)he her-/himself can be trusted to.
But that’s not the user’s fault.
I’ll check in later, just to see if I am banned. IF SO, I’ll tell ya right now, I have been kicked off other AWESOME, HIGH QUALITY, HIGH CONTENT, UNIQUE Blogs , so sorry, you don’t get the Cherry, BUT you can say, you got the BOX it came in. HAHHAHHAHHAHhahhahhahhahhahahahahahahahahahah
Wow. Should’ve refreshed the page before responding. Claire’s observation on ‘silly substances’ matches my impression completely, after reading these incoherent ‘contributions’…
Thank you, R. Hartman. I’m glad you made your comments.
Donald, you haven’t yet done anything ban-worthy. I see that you crave to be banned, considering it a badge of “honor.” I’m not yet going to oblige you. But I am going to ask that everybody keep this discussion rational and on topic — with the topics being Vin’s book (which doesn’t deserve this distraction), entheogens, freedom of mind & religion, etc.
Genesis 1:11,12
And GOD said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth; and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass ,and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind; AND GOD SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD.
emphasis GODS, KJV
Wow.
And, uh, yeah, Vin’s book. Looking forward to reading it when it’s out in paperback. I’ll have to check the library as well. Last time I suggested a book for their acquistion, they obliged with 4 copies and put me at the top of the hold list.
Tahn, muh mahn
So you think everything “God” made was good huh? Think again. God did
create Adam, alone, RIGHT? God did say later that IT IS NOT GOOD THAT MAN
BE ALONE, RIGHT??? HAHHAHHAHhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Donald, you haven’t yet done anything ban-worthy. I see that you crave to be banned, considering it a badge of “honor.” I’m not yet going to oblige you.
You’re not???
So you have proven yourself to be a liar. Excuse me, I apologize, you just did not tell the truth
When do we get the rest of the interview?
Sometime tomorrow, Pat. Probably not first thing in the morning, but by afternoon.
Good. Thanks – sounds interesting. And am looking forward to buying the book in February.
As to the book: I’m the proud owner of copy #076, plus (just tonight) a Kindle version (so I can keep the book pristine, having cats and what not). I’ll have to make some time to read it, but I’m sure I’ll love it, having read ‘Waco’, ‘Drega’ (almost finished) and the ‘Arrow’, and of course the 6 introductory excerpts to TToJ ;-).
I’m not the best of reviewers though, but I liked the mix of fact and (too imaginable) fiction in The Black Arrow. As for Waco and Drega, there’s not much to like, apart from the way Vin depicts and analyses government thuggery; these books are documents of verifiable fact, and it’s amazing, and tragic, that people would dismiss the events described as ‘incidents’ with an otherwise ‘well-meaning government’, dismissing the messenger as a gun-nut, as Vin hints at.
Anytime you grant people power over other people, that power gets abused. It’s not in the least surprising, there are plenty of scientific psychological experiments that prove it, but the masses refuse to acknowledge it, even when their noses are rubbed in it. And the abusers know it, hence their main effort initially is aimed at disarming their – intended – victims.
Probably your tax-dollars at work, in the mandatory propaganda camps called public schools, assisted by the controlled main stream media. Most parents these days are non the wiser, trained/programmed as they are, so kids get inundated in this ‘government is god and we cannot live without it’ mantra of today.
Here in The Netherlands there’s not likely to be a large audience for Vin’s work,
a) because it’s in English (it’s really surprising how much of a barrier that still appears to be),
b) because his stories fall under the modern denominator TL;DR (great, that current SMS and Twitter 140 character generation, see Vin’s comments on the length of his answers, but hey, what use is an answer without context?) and
c) the message Vin brings is a very uncomfotable one in disarmed Europe (except for Switserland, which most Europeans are not aware of; why would Switserland have succeeded in remaining neutral in both World Wars?).
If I thought there was, I’d seriously consider offering translating Vin’s books, because to me, they’re THAT important. But then, I side with Rothbard: Abolish the State!
How many sequels of the interview will follow? And when?
Very good decision not to cut. I’ll keep an eye out.
Bottom question (partly) answered already. Probably posted while writing my contribution. Thanks.
Cheers,
René
Interesting interview, but more like a Vin Essay than an interview 🙂 He comes across as a bit touchy on the subject of changing genres, for example. I’m looking forward to reading the rest of the interview and the series — Kindle version though, $32 for a 200 page book is way too steep.
It sure does seem like an awful lot of people have been awfully keen for an awfully long time to “blow the orthodox, authoritarian Pauline version of Christianity right off the map.”
It seems like every year or three someone comes out with yet another book supposedly revealing some previously secret text or hidden document(s) purporting to prove that Jesus of Nazareth was not what orthodox Pauline Christianity says He was (that is, not at all divine, but merely a nice, wise fellow who told good parables and liked children and taught a simple and kindly religion, as opposed to the cruel, complicated Pauline one, and so forth); or that He never even existed at all.
And it’s always supposed to be shockingly new and groundbreaking and earth-shattering. But it seems to be that the Gnostics and others were putting out much the same sort of thing while Paul was still alive.
I of course do not accept as a given that there is anything explicitly authoritarian (in any earthly, secular sense) about the account of the world orthodox Christian doctrine presents.
But I gather that Christianity was never presented in an appealing way to many people. Some of a certain personality type seem to believe there is something inherently, fundamentally authoritarian about Christian doctrine. I have encountered not a few who sincerely believe Christianity to be a giant conspiracy to persecute gay people and to subjugate women. Or just to stop anyone from enjoying life. Or to prop up corrupt states.
Whenever I demur however mildly, someone inevitably brings up the medieval Catholic church’s persecution of heretics and witches, and the Spanish Inquisition, and the various official state churches that represented explicit alliances of church and state.
But they and I are not talking about the same thing. I am only talking about a large body of doctrine and thought, some of it extra-biblical, developed over many centuries, *not* the various ways power-hungry people (who may not have believed a word of it themselves) and the governments they formed or ran *used* some perverted version of Christianity as a pretext for whatever they wanted to do.
Sincerely,
David
Donald —
“So you have proven yourself to be a liar. Excuse me, I apologize, you just did not tell the truth”
Um … what? I’m a liar because I haven’t banned you yet? Oh, you’re definitely heading for a ban, and rapidly. But I’m terribly curious to know where I “lied” about banning you, or where I “did not tell the truth” about banning you. I didn’t even mention banning you until you eagerly brought up the subject.
BTW, Donald, namecalling is one of the few things that get people banned from here.
Right now I find you oddly amusing and assume that others do. But aside from calling me a liar, you’ve ignored my request that commentors stay on topic. So yeah, you’re pushing it.
You’ll almost certainly get the “martyrdom” you’re craving, so you can go off to other sites and boast that one more place has banned you.
Anyone who’s waiting for a paperback version of TTOJ may have a long wait ahead. We currently have no plans for one, sorry. And (ebook aside) please don’t expect to find print versions at Amazon anytime soon. Vin’s gone into the reasons at length elsewhere … I’m not going to get into that here.
There seem to be various free e-readers available — a few free copies remain available (see Claire’s links above) so it needn’t cost you a penny, if you act now (OMG, I sound like a bad TV commercial! Cut … )
Thanks, Claire and everyone. Happy 2015 🙂
As for entheogens, if there is a real God, I want to know Him. I mean the *real* one, not some chemistry set “god” that comes from a pill or from a fungus filtered through a caribou’s kidneys, or a weed, or some tree bark distillation.
And if there is no real God, I want to know that too. I want to know what *is*, not just what *seems*.
I don’t want to believe in some chemically-induced phantasm that exists only in my addled brain. I’m interested in the God whose existence and reality are in no way dependent upon anyone’s perceptions — the one Who long pre-existed myself and all of humanity. The one I did not create or invent, Who does not resemble me at all, and Who may not even like me. But there it is. Or isn’t, as the case may be.
Somehow this insistence that the truth be known though the heavens fall is supposed to make me an authoritarian. I don’t quite see how. I’m all for legalizing *all* drugs and plants. I have no wish to use them, but I don’t care what drugs or plants other people take.
I don’t much care what other people believe or don’t believe in either. I’m not a missionary, and it’s not my role to convert anybody (though it might be my duty to fight them if they try to impose on me). They can all believe babies come from dirty toilet seats if they like.
If the only “god* they can believe in is one that can be mixed up in a test tube, to be summoned or dismissed at their pleasure, I guess they are free to. At least *I* will not interfere with their choices (though I might speculate darkly about the results).
I just get tired of being called a stupid unimaginative clod all the time for preferring to think and do otherwise.
Sincerely,
David
” Somehow this insistence that the truth be known though the heavens fall is supposed to make me an authoritarian.”
I don’t even remotely think that a relentless quest for truth makes anybody an authoritarian. I share that relentless quest, though obviously my version of it has taken me down a far different path than you. I also can’t even imagine anybody here calling you a stupid, unimaginative clod. You’re obviously not.
A lot of people who read this blog are believers. If I’m personally insensitive about religion sometimes (and it’s almost certainly true that I am), it’s for two reasons that I really can’t undo. The first is my own horrible childhood experiences with Christianity. The second is that I can’t comprehend the thought processes of religious people; it’s simply not within me. But I don’t mean you or other believers any disrespect. On the contrary, I’ve said repeatedly that I envy those who believe there’s a god who loves and cares about them.
Oh, but David, I do think you misapprehend how entheogens work on the brain. It’s not merely a matter of “a chemistry set god.” On the contrary. The effects are complicated and vary from substance to substance. I’m far from an expert, obviously. But one thing entheogens do is help deepen perceptions and remove some mental barriers. For instance, many people report feeling greater connectedness — to other people, to the universe, to … whatever. They may not “see god” or “find god” in any literal sense. They just see the world from a different, and many would say more spiritual, perspective.
Not saying that you or anybody else who isn’t inclined should try any psychoactive substances. Just saying your idea of entheogens is clearly that of someone who hasn’t experienced them.
This is something I posted elsewhere, under a pen name, elsewhere, on January 19, 2012.
‘”The notion that everyone would _like_ Christianity to be true, and that _therefore all atheists are brave men who have accepted the defeat of all their deepest desires_, is simply impudent nonsense. Do you think people like Stalin, Hitler, Haldane, Stapledon (a corking good writer, by the way) would be _pleased_ on waking up one morning to find that they were not their own masters, that they had a Master and a Judge, that there was nothing even in the deepest recesses of their thoughts about which they could say to Him `Keep out! Private. This is my business’? Do you?
… _Their first reaction would be (as mine was) rage and terror_. And I very much doubt whether even you would find it simply pleasant. Isn’t the truth this: that it would gratify some of our desires (ones we feel in fact pretty seldom) and outrage a good many others? So _let’s wash out all the wish business_. It never helped anyone to solve any problem yet.’ — C.S. Lewis, in a December, 1950 letter to Sheldon Vanauken
I run into this _constantly_ — this notion that Christians only believe because they _want_ to, because they _like_ what they believe. Because they “find comfort” or “fulfillment” or — get this — “_their deepest beauty_” — in it. 😆
We’re all constantly made out to be a lot of naive saps and chumps, easily led and manipulated, etc. It’s SO condescending and insulting and I was already pretty sick of it four decades ago.
And it most often comes from people who a moment later reveal that their own reasons for disbelieving are laughably puerile. Surprisingly often their unbelief is grounded in nothing more (or more sophisticated) than some variant of, “Well, if God made everything, then who made God?” Or, “I’ve met a lot of hypocrites in church,” or “Some Christians are jerks,” or “They creeped me out bad with stories of hell in Sunday School and/or guilt-tripped me about sex when I was a wee lass/lad.”
It’s usually pretty plain that they have never given it much thought beyond that, or ever really even looked at any serious work of theology, and have no conception of what a strong case can be made out for belief. I doubt one in a thousand of them could distinguish between Augustine and Aquinas, for example. A lot of them don’t even realize there’s a difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament, or between a Catholic and a Protestant.
And yet they will then proceed to lecture Christians on what they (the Christians) are supposed to believe and how they are supposed to act and even feel.
Just a couple of nights ago I read some online column, by a guy with whom I sometimes even agree about some things, in which he stated that a soldier could not be a Christian, or that no one could simultaneously be a soldier and a Christian. From what I gather, he himself has never been either. Yet he will lecture those who have.’
It’s one thing for someone to believe in God, and quite another to believe in a God who loves and cares about them or is in any sense on their side.
I am always having to point out to people that I don’t own or control God. I didn’t invent Him, and I don’t have a patent or a trademark on Him. I can’t make Him appear like a genie or perform tricks on demand.
He doesn’t work for me. He may not even like me, and I can’t think of any very good reason why He should.
Hi Brunette. Yeah, now that you mention it, I do recall some prior comments re. Amazon. I haven’t tried any Kindle books, but perhaps this is the thing to get me to see how well Calibre works. And if Bear thinks I can see any cats in that image, well, I’m just SOL there. Maybe I’m supposed to be able to bring up a full-size version? Do appreciate the offer though.
In my entire life, I’ve read just one book on the computer. I’d rather have dead-tree format, though I admit there’s some extent to which reading on the screen is easier, if the text is properly presented, which it often is not. I don’t even want to contemplate attempting to do so on my phone.
Would a good tomato sauce with basil and garlic be entheogenic to a Pastafarian?
“But I gather that Christianity was never presented in an appealing way to many people. Some of a certain personality type seem to believe there is something inherently, fundamentally authoritarian about Christian doctrine.”
Not the doctrine, but those who promote the doctrine — those are the authoritarians. And you’re right, Christianity was never presented in an appealing way to the vast majority of people.
To those who chose to believe it, it was acceptable without question. But from the beginning (from the disciples and Paul onward), the Word was always proselytized. They are the ones who never understood Jesus, nor his teaching. They are the ones who insisted on absolute adherence to particular principles even while interpreting those principles to suit their own (mis)beliefs. They are the ones who think they have the right to convert others to their beliefs, if necessary with physical, political, or emotional force.
Many, many years ago, as a kid, I began to question the Christian doctrine, and ultimately all religion, because those of us of a “certain personality type” — i.e. those who don’t accept what we’re told without question, those who demand reason in the answers we’re given — do not find “belief” appealing. I did not comprehend the nature of “belief”, it was alien to me.
To me, Jesus is much more appealing as a man than as the “son of God.” (Not necessarily right in every case, but more appealing; at least he was trying.) For “God” as a concept is unknowable. One cannot know, and not know, at the same time; yet that is what is expected of us — to know God and accept him, even while we cannot understand him. And that is the nature of Christianity, which expects us to believe in the Word without rational validation for it.
(And isn’t it ironic that all three major religions believe in the same “God” — almost laughable if it wasn’t so serious — and the longest, nastiest wars have sprung from fighting each other?)
“Just a couple of nights ago I read some online column, by a guy with whom I sometimes even agree about some things, in which he stated that a soldier could not be a Christian, or that no one could simultaneously be a soldier and a Christian. From what I gather, he himself has never been either. Yet he will lecture those who have.’”
This is ironic. I have been told — many times! — by Christians that I can’t be a lover of freedom because I don’t believe in their version of God.
You have a lot of complaints, David. You just don’t understand that the mistreatment and misunderstanding you perceive goes both ways.
And please, guys, though I’ve been guilty of this myself, let’s not turn this into a discussion of whether Christianity is the truth or not and whether religious people or non-religious people are “the good guys.” That discussion goes nowhere. Nobody persuades anybody else and it just results in frustration on both sides.
Let’s try to stick with the topics: Vin’s book, freedom of thought, censorship, etc. There’s plenty to talk about without airing our personal grievances or turning this into yet another fruitless debate about Christianity.
R. Hartman — Thank you for being here with your European perspective. Must get lonely, there on the edge of civilization, so thanks for holding the freedomista fort so well. 😉
Sorry, Claire. The comment I quoted waved a red flag at me. I knew better, and I won’t do it again.
Pat — No need for apology. I’ve also responded to red flags in this thread (far more than you have). I thought your comment was interesting. I’ve thought David’s comments are interesting. I just know the frustration that will ensue if we keep going in that direction.
I also know (though I sometimes forget) that this blog is the property of the Duffys and BHM, not me. While they tolerate the heck out of it, they undoubtedly wouldn’t want it going in certain directions.
Hi, Jed … I’ll reserve you a copy if you wish — please email me by Jan. 15, though.
I believe Bear is referring to the story itself — there are no cats in the TTOJ cover image, though there are plenty in the book. “Anthropomorphic cats” is a clue. 😉
We’re dead tree book people too — no experience of Calibre, but we used Adobe Digital Editions 4.0 to proof the ebook — we liked it, found it easy to use, and it’s free. 🙂
As Vin’s book really is about “a book that could prove Christianity has been twisted over the years to serve the purposes of a dominator culture that just wants to conquer and subjugate” I’d like to add some comments to that as well, especially as I ‘believe’ that man created ‘God’ and not the other way around; there is plenty of evidence that various ‘Gods’ were created in order to be able to accept (and fear) nature’s reality that man could not understand, followed by ‘the one and only’ who apparently was not wise enough to create circumcised boys and girls so man had to ‘correct’ god’s ‘mistake’. And then there were wars about who’s ‘one and only’ was the REAL ‘one and only’… As ever, opportunities for power grabs never remain unfulfilled for long.
My main problem with religious people is that most regard (and resent) non-believers as second-rate people, people who are to be pitied because they ‘don’t know what they’re missing’. But I don’t need to be pitied, and certainly do not want to. Like Claire I have no issue with people whose opinion is that there is a God, an opinion in which they apparently find comfort to the extent that government thugs do not necessarily need to be tried and punished on this earth as ‘their creator’ will handle that in due time (yes, I was actually told that on a blog by an ex Theology schoolmarm). It must be a real blessing to be able to think that.
While I have no problem with people who believe in whatever God they worship, almost all of those worshippers have BIG issues with me NOT worshipping their fantasy. My tolerance gets met with their intolerance: I have to submit to their arbitrary rules, for my own good, of course. Did I mention that THEIR God is the ‘one and only’ yet?
A very good, but at the same time very illustrative of this phenomenon, documentary was available on Vimeo for free, but no longer is. While the historical information presented was important, at the same time the message was that morality is impossible without religion and, of course, that meant christian religion. Unfortunately, the documentary is no longer available on Vimeo, but it prompted me to write to its producers, an open letter that can be found here: http://dutchconcerns.blogspot.nl/2013/05/agenda-grinding-america-down.html Alas, I never got a response.
In my opening paragraph, I refer to a speech by Bill Lind on the Frankfurt School (Institut für Sozialforschung), which can be found here: http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/
Very informative.
As for being lonely on the edge of civilization (I liked that!): true, but I do have some like-minded acquaintances. But even for some of those, Vin is too radical on certain issues. While even I do not agree with Vin on everything, so far I’ve only been able to find a single issue (won’t get into that here, as this contribution would/could become an essay in itself). I’d say that’s not bad for someone who tends to be ‘out of step’ with most of the world.
Jed —
While I normally also prefer dead-tree to online, dealing with blogs and essays in pdf-format has sort of bridged the gap to some extent.
I use the Kindle Reader app from Amazon, on PC and Android, and I have to say that Kindle does a decent job in presenting the content, even on my phone. To be fair, that phone is kinda large, more of a phablet, with a 5.3″ 1280×800 screen, which does help ;-). No idea what it would look like on smaller screens.
R.H. I’ve been reading on the CRT since, oh, about 1981. Back in those days, we had actual printed manuals for the operating system, but the glowing phosphors still got plenty of eyeball time. But of course that changed over time, particularly once I started working in Unix systems. A good part of it is, I think, that I really like having something to read which gets me away from the computer, just to be away from it.
Brunette, thanks for the offer, but I’m now curious to try out the Calibre software, with a Kindle book. And I hope those 10 free copies can go to people who are worse off than I.
R. Hartman —
“Vin’s book really is about “a book that could prove Christianity has been twisted over the years to serve the purposes of a dominator culture that just wants to conquer and subjugate”
That’s a much better description than I gave in my mini-review. Vin’s story is not against Christianity (and certainly not against Christians or Jesus) as much as it is about the type of religion that became useful to dominators.
“My main problem with religious people is that most regard (and resent) non-believers as second-rate people, people who are to be pitied because they ‘don’t know what they’re missing’.”
I hope you will retract the word “most.” I know exactly what you’re talking about; I’ve run into that condescension also. Many times. But I think it’s wrong to say most religious people are like that. It’s certainly not true of the many believers who regularly read and comment on this blog. Very much to the contrary. Heck, Vin himself appears to be a believer and he’s certainly not like that.
I think most religious people are perfectly happy to live and let live and don’t look down on anybody — except some who deserve it (you know, politicians, etc. 🙂 ). In my experience, what you describe is common among proselytizers. But that’s a whole different story. That’s a subgroup that tends to stand out.
The Bible is the most powerfully-mind destroying drug I’ve ever encountered (as illustrated quite undeniably above)- and yet I would still fight against banning it with everything I have. Just as I oppose the banning of any substance. I hate prohibition of any sort.
I have a feeling I would enjoy Vin’s book. I’ll try to get the Kindle version soon.
Kent McManigal Says:
@ > I have a feeling
Kent, I do too. Fact is, I have a lot of feel-ings
sincerely,
Phil Lings
I have no idea what the above comment is about, but as this thread is already so strange and the comment didn’t seem to be spam, I approved it. Am continuing to keep an eye on things in this thread, though.
David Hawley Says:
January 4th, 2015
Just a couple of nights ago I read some online column, by a guy with whom I sometimes even agree about some things, in which he stated that a soldier could not be a Christian, or that no one could simultaneously be a soldier and a Christian. From what I gather, he himself has never been either. Yet he will lecture those who have.’
Onward Christian Soldiers marching as to WAR. Remember that song?
It is written in the Bible, that, “God” is a Man of WAR too. King David went to war as commanded by, “God.”
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
I read the book yesterday.
I tend to oppose generally the battling that happens over religion, a fine example showing up right here in these comments. I can’t imagine a better “divide and conquer” subject for the ruling class.
The ruling class does pervert religion to its own ends, but they do that with everything they can lay their hands on so it shouldn’t be surprising. Another area they do the same thing in is the concept of rights. Because X is twisted to the ends of the ruling class does not automatically discredit X.
A couple of articles I wrote:
http://strike-the-root.com/dehumanizing-people-is-fun
http://strike-the-root.com/apostate-from-government-religion
I used to be quite hard-core anti-religious. At this point in my life I am ashamed I acted that way, and like myself much better now that I have gotten over that. I now have as many friends who are religious as who aren’t; why cut ourselves off from nice people due to differences of opinion like this? Anyone who does not actually impose on me is at least potentially my friend.
Paul Bonneau, greetings. I am not trying to impose anything on anyone. I think you will agree that birds of a feather should stay together. Otherwise, we may end up with some vultures & they don’t want to hear about our position/stand, etc.
Claire —
Thanks for applying some nuance.
The description is not mine; I took it from the interview, so the honor is to Vin.
On my use of ‘Most’: maybe I should’ve said: “Most whom I encounter”, as for many I may indeed not even notice, as I do not really look for signs. I went to Christian public schools in my youth and the experience could be quite suffocating at times. And when you then later on encounter people in the blogs, who really ‘argue’ like the mentioned schoolmarm, or who proudly announce to be re-born christians, unrelated to the subject at hand, or present themselves as superior to non- (or even other-) believers, like in the documentary, it’s the impression that sticks.
So yes, I will retract ‘most’, and agree with your closing paragraph.
You’re a lovely person to have around, R. Hartman. Thank you.
(And I’m sure glad I never had to go to Christian schools as a child! Ugh. Wouldn’t have minded Catholic schools, I think, even with the terrible stories about the mean, nasty nuns. They offered more intensive education than the public schools I went to, so that was something. But the few Protestant Christian schools that were around when I was a kid always seemed more into propaganda than learning.)
People who barely know basic arithmetic will think you are loony telling them about trignometry. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everything else is too. 5 people witnessing an accident give 5 different versions of what they saw. If we could eliminate hate greed & jealousy, we would have Utopia.
Claire Says:
(And I’m sure glad I never had to go to Christian schools as a child!
==========================================
WHO taught the “Christians” that taught those Christians, & who taught those that taught them? IF there is a “God,” who is our Creator, then I’m sure this “God” provided a WAY for us to find out about him. Fact IS, I KNOW SO. I say “HIM” because in the Bible I have, a certain scripture says, “It greived HIM at HIS heart that HE made man. Think it’s Genesis 6:6
R. Hartman Says:
Re: Just voicing it only makes you narrow-minded
Freedom of speech ? Please tell me what WE can voice our opinion about. I am not voicing immoral thoughts & opinions. Our ORIGINAL Constitution was made for a MORAL People. IT IS NOT FIT FOR ANY OTHER KIND. We now have an IMMORAL GOVERNMENT for IMMORAL PEOPLE. FITS LIKE A GLOVE.
R.Hartman, Claire, My Man Mama, et.al.
BTW, I hate to break it to you, but reading requires not only me to make an effort to communicate with some precision, but also each reader’s correlative obligation to make some effort to understand. If my writing is too hard for you to comprehend, perhaps you shouldn’t read that which you lack sufficient intelligence or worth ethic to comprehend. Perhaps you should start with the MainStreamNews and when & IF those articles are sufficiently clear to you, you might move up to a high school text on history or some such.
I have something for you to contemplate. I’d rather live my life like there is a God, die, and find out there isn’t, then live my life like there isn’t a God, die, and find out there is. Any way you cut it, that’s the most logical conclusion there is in regards to a Higher Power. The truth is, the only reason people bash God is because they don’t want to live their life the way God wants us to live, which causes the very pain, death, & madness that they bitch about. At the end of the day, the mankind mortality rate is 100%. And, just like Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken fame,We’re all gonna kick the bucket, and we’re all going to get the truth on the other side. Don’t be so foolish with your life. Stop hating on the man upstairs, because the only thing he does not do for us, is, he does not FORCE us to do what is right, decent & honorable.
Finally, IF this message doesn’t put a halter on your some of your hogwash boulderdash, only the “Good LORD” can educate YOU. I define halter as: A headstall usually with “noseband” and “throatlatch” to which a lead may be attached. Soooo follow my lead.
Tahn Says:
January 4th, 2015
Tahn, it’s not the thing that’s wrong, it’s the wrong use of the thing. This IS what’s wrong. Eat a little poison oak/ivy. Drink a little sewer rat urnine too, if you so desire. You have the right to be wrong, too. Try a little arsenic with those divine delicacies. It may enhance the flavor. Do you like chitlin soup?
“I have something for you to contemplate. I’d rather live my life like there is a God, die, and find out there isn’t, then live my life like there isn’t a God, die, and find out there is. Any way you cut it, that’s the most logical conclusion there is in regards to a Higher Power.”
No, it’s not logical. That’s called Pascal’s Wager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager) and it’s been thoroughly debunked. Among other things, what if you live your life like there’s a god, and there actually IS a god, but it’s nothing like the one you imagined and you’re in big, fat, posthumous, eternal trouble with it?
“The truth is, the only reason people bash God is because they don’t want to live their life the way God wants us to live, which causes the very pain, death, & madness that they bitch about.”
And that is simply a bigoted statement. You do not know the hearts and minds of every non-theist on the planet and it’s wildly presumptuous of you to claim that you do. You’re just vomiting out some statement you’ve heard in church or on Christian forums.