I start to take the dogs for their morning walk, put my foot wrong, and come down on the side of my ankle with a pain I thought was going to knock me out.
After five minutes of sitting in the road seeing stars, I’m able to get up and hobble back to the house. Dogs are looking at me like I’m totally betraying them. “But … but … it’s walk time, Mommy!!!”
And that’s just for starters …
—–
With ice pack in hand and ibuprofin starting to do its work, I head across town to the auto shop where my distributor is supposed to be replaced. (Good thing the Xterra is an automatic and it’s the left ankle that’s screaming.)
So I wait with my foot on a chair and ice on my foot while they replace the distributor (pricy part; quick repair).
Except the problem isn’t the distributor. I wait another hour while they try to figure out the real reason the “service engine” light has been on for a year and the engine is now starting to idle roughly. No luck. Maybe bad wiring. Maybe the computer.
—–
I get a ride home and figure that since I’m useless today I might as well upgrade my laptop from Mint 15 to Mint 17.1.
The install breaks the computer. It won’t even boot. “Grub rescue,” the machine helpfully informs me, adding a >. Clearly the machine expects me to put in some command that of course every computer person simply must know.
And it won’t even allow me to attempt a re-install. Grub rescue > Grub rescue > Grub rescue >.
I know Grub is the bootloader. That’s the full extent of my knowledge — and by golly, I can’t even look up more info on the computer.* ‘Cause, you know … Grub rescue > Grub rescue > Grub rescue >.
Eventually I re-install Mint 15, and from there I’m “allowed” to try Mint 17.1 again. Which works. Glory be!
—–
Meanwhile, the ever-attention-seeking Princess Ava Prettypaws is like, “Oh, Mommy, walk me, walk me. Play with me, play with me. Can I jump up and down on your hurt foot, Mom? Oh, are you getting up from that chair? Surely it means you’re going to give me loves, pats, cookies, tennis balls? And did I mention I really, really, really need a walk, Mommy?” She is unsympathetic to the fact that I can barely make it to the kitchen for a new cold-pack.
Robbie, bless him, looks puzzled. But only during the increasingly rare moments that dear old boy is actually awake.
—–
By now the auto shop has had the Xterra six hours. But when I call, they still don’t know what’s wrong.
—–
Later, the mechanic calls. Found some iffy wiring. Fixed it. But sorry, that’s not the problem either. One more guess: computer’s going out. Over $1,000 to fix and hey, we’re not even sure that’ll take care of things!
By now I’m not only frustrated but steamed. This is the best shop in town, not my usual shade-tree mechanic. When I asked them to diagnose the problem, the shade-tree guy had already told me the diagnostic code indicated a distributor problem. I didn’t believe it; I replaced the distributor 40,000 miles ago.
“Do your diagnostics go beyond just reading codes?” I asked the shop foreman when I brought the car in for diagnostics last week. “Can you really pinpoint the problem and not just say, ‘Oh Code XYZ; it’s the distributor?” “Yes,” he said. “Of course.”
So when they said distributor, I believed it. But I learn during all this that they diagnosed a distributor problem solely “because the computer code said …” Now, clearly they have no clue even after a full day of poking around in the engine.
Which I understand in a way. Being a mechanic is tough. But I’m picturing hundreds of dollars for this result-free day at the shop and I’m not in a forgiving mood. I don’t have any choice but to drive the car home and try to figure something out on my own. A thousand dollar repair for a 15-year-old vehicle just ain’t happening. Especially one based on guesswork.
—–
When I get a ride back to the shop, though, they have a bill ready … for one hour. A single hour. Because they couldn’t solve the problem. I’m moved and impressed and now I feel worse for them than for me.
I drive home, get the dogs, and take Ava to Furrydoc to board for a few days. Furrydoc comes right out to the car so I don’t have to walk and she tells me she has an oversized kennel and tennis balls ready to keep Ava busy while I’m hobbling. The car is really starting to run rough now, but I get home with no problems and Robbie and I watch a bad John Carpenter film. Which helps.
So it was a crazy, crappy day. But all’s well that ends well. Now, all I need to do is find a computer (aka ECM or engine control module) I can afford or figure out what else might be wrong. (Oxygen sensor seems another possibility, but what do I know?) Fortunately there are lots of options online, from remanufactured parts to send us your own part and we’ll fix it to junkyard specials.
And now I even have a shiny, updated computer with a functional operating system to help me search.
—–
*Lie. I have an older computer as a backup. It was just too painful to get up and get it.
Hope you’ll be on the mend quickly. My sympathies with the Xterra. Unfortunately, I’m not a car guy, so all I can send is my best wishes for a better day tomorrow.
Oh my! You’re just having a time of it! Hope you didn’t do anything to the ankle other than a sprain. Yikes!
Wish I knew what to tell you on the car. My main thought is that if it’s otherwise sound, $1000 to have it keep going for several more years isn’t awful. The alternative is buying something else, used, which is always a crapshoot. (Yes, I’m assuming you wouldn’t buy a new car, which I know, I shouldn’t.) I still wish I’d kept my decrepit Volvo. Problem was, the mechanics didn’t know what was wrong with it. Oy indeed! But looking back, I think I gave up to easily – I should’ve tried to nurse it in one more time, or had it towed to them. But at the time, I was tired of having it be a problem.
Bob G — Thanks for the good wishes. Tomorrow is bound to be better, right? Even at today’s worst, I realize all this is no big deal in the great scheme of things.
jed — I’m quite sure the ankle is non-serious. Torn muscle, I’m guessing. And you’re absolutely right to assume I’d never buy a new car. OMG, not possible, never happening — unless the Elio eventually comes out at the promised $6,800, which I doubt.
You’re also right that a $1000 repair might be worth it. The Xterra has been a good vehicle and could go many more years. But if I can make the repair less than $1000, better yet. And if it really turns out I have to spend that kind of money, it’s going to be based on more than guesswork!
Understand why you gave up on that Volvo, though. Spending repair money when nobody knows what the problem is is crazy-making.
Oh for the good old days where a car had points, plugs and a carburetor.
My sentiments exactly, UnReconstructed.
Claire, I’m in the auto and diesel service business, and while you’re much too far away to just have you bring it into the shop, there are cheaper options available than dropping a grand on a new computer. I get some amazing deals on used and remanufactured parts on eBay. Without the VIN for your Xterra I can only get close, but even at that I see some deals there, including a service that repairs your existing ECM for under $200.
RustyGunner — I saw that, too! Plus there’s a junkyard part I can get online from a town less than 50 miles from here for even less.
Would it be okay if I contacted you privately? (Don’t want to be like the person who meets a doctor at a cocktail party and demands a diagnosis of her gall bladder issues. 🙂 But clearly you and I are thinking along the same lines, only you know what you’re doing and I don’t.)
service engine or check engine? service lites are generally maintenance reminders. check engine lite (CEL) on the other hand indicate an emission problem. your car could tear itself apart, but if it does it in an environmental-friendly manor, the CEL would not turn on. to be honest, i don’t think the ignition system would directly set off a code. it may be a random misfire that they are second guessing to be electrical related. with that said, i’m curious what the code is?
PS> i find it disturbing when people use mommy & daddy with reference to pets.
I worked in the auto repair field for 10 years and I’ve only seen a bad ECU once. Everyone love to say that they’re the problem, but it’s always something else. Finding a good mechanic is tough. Good luck with the car.
I’ve had snuff-it level twisted ankle pain. Usually, for me, a hint to meditate more. And I can relate to your car problems. Keeping running the ’99 Saab my sister-in-law gifted is sometimes expensive, but it sure is nice to drive.
Owie Owie Owie! Sending best wishes and positive energy for the ankle healing.
Hope you can get a reasonable diagnosis and fix on the Xterra without breaking the bank.
Eek. I twisted and bent my knee sideways last year. Spent a week mostly not moving, then another three weeks with a cane. Wore a brace for about seven months. Worst pain I ever felt (including some broken bones). But except for a slight loss of flexibility (can’t touch my heel to my butt anymore) and occasional twinges, it’s pretty much back to normal.
I’m using Mint 17.1 myself. Installed without any trouble. Runs great. Hate to say it, but you might need to download the ISO again. Sounds like the one you got is corrupted. If bandwidth is a problem, send me a thumb drive and I’ll set it up for you.
Ugh. I hope your ankle heals up quickly. It does sound like the mechanics you’ve got there are at least honest. I really do hate the random guessing approach to repairs though! The damn things have computers in them, they ought to be able to tell the mechanic exactly what’s wrong with them.
Sometimes you’re the windshield… and sometimes you are the bug.
The only good thing I can see is that you pretty much took care of the bad luck in a compact time frame. Probably due for some good luck again soon, in that case. 🙂
As for the ankle, you probably stretched some ligaments rather than tore muscles. Those suckers are very difficult to tear, trust me. Not that stretched ligaments and tendons are any joke. They take a long time to heal because they have little blood supply. There is the key… time. And reducing further stress on them is the bottom line to faster healing.
Find someone who truly understands how to use a pressure bandage or brace. Buy the right stuff and learn to put it on properly, then wear it every time you stand up. The more you stress it by walking around, especially unsupported, the longer it will take to heal – even if the pain subsides substantially in the meantime. And any new strain or shock will set it back.
Ice was good for the initial pain and swelling, but now you want to keep it warm. Soaking the whole foot and ankle in moderately hot epsom salts water (1/4 cup salts to each gallon of water) will help. A heating pad on low will help. The heat stimulates the circulation, which brings nutrients to the area and carries away the waste products of healing. Don’t leave either ice or heat on for more than 30 minutes at a time. If the swelling persists, alternating heat and ice will give it a kick start to drain quickly.
Whatever you do, don’t just stoically decide to ignore it and go on with life as usual. The usual could turn out to become more or less permanent weakness and pain in that ankle. And once those ligaments “heal” all wrong, you can’t go back and do it right – at least not without surgery, and probably not even then. Some serious down time and inconvenience for a few days or a week would be a very small price to pay to avoid all that.
A sprained ankle is sometimes worse than a break. I broke my right ankle 10 years ago, and the doctor agreed with me that I was lucky. Given the circumstances, the broken bone allowed the ankle to “turn” without putting too much pulling stress on the ligaments. Without the break, I would likely have needed extensive surgery! So a “mere sprain” is nothing to sneeze at. Take care of it, and yourself. 🙂
Ah, the diagnosis blues. Cars – especially modern cars – can be as frustrating and baffling as any teenage daughter. Diagnosis can take hours and hours or even days once you’re out of ideas. And after you’ve spent lots of money throwing parts at the electronic powertrain controls because of all the misleading codes and then the rough idle turns out to be caused by a shorted spark plug…well…you don’t get paid for the hours of diagnosis. Mr. Service Manager knows your name, and not in a good way.
Ask me how I know…No. Don’t.
Wishing you quick ankle healing, btw. You’ve got dogs to walk, after all. 🙂
ML — Thanks for the advice. Okay, stretched ligament it is (I just know it’s not broken bones). I hadn’t even thought about a bandage or brace, but I’ll check into that today. Yes, I do tend just to tough these things out, so thanks for the reality check. Can’t imagine being “lucky” to have broken your ankle!
Bear, I remember you being out of commission last year. I hope that healed without incident. I did eventually get a clean install of Mint 17.1. I don’t know what went wrong the first time, but it might have been my fault for the way I set up partition tables. Dunno. But I’m good now. Thank you for the offer of help.
And to all who are sympathizing with the car problem ..
“I worked in the auto repair field for 10 years and I’ve only seen a bad ECU once. Everyone love to say that they’re the problem, but it’s always something else.”
Yeah. That’s what I’m guessing and what I’m afraid of.
Yeah. You’d think that if they’re going to combine cars and computers, the computers should be capable of GOOD diagnostics. The whole guessing business is pretty lame, especially when it comes down to guessing about $1000+ repairs!
I wouldn’t be a mechanic for anything, thank you! Not that anyone would even think of hiring me for such work. Oh, the very thought.
The codes help diagnose typical problems, but they aren’t perfect because they can also mislead. It says “distributor problem” but it might be the wiring to the distributor so that swapping the distributor out wouldn’t do anything. I would definitely not have the ECU changed. The problem with swapping out parts is that is not really troubleshooting, but shotgunning as we used to say.
If the problem now manifests itself while idling, what I’d do is start it up, open the hood, and start pulling on cables and moving them. If it’s a dirty or corroded connector or broken conductor, doing that will alternately make it run better or worse, depending on how you move the wires. A huge percentage of electronics problems are poor connections.
Another thing you *might* try is pulling and replacing the spark plug wires, one at a time. If you pull one and nothing changes (still running rough) then that is the cylinder that is not working. Did the cap get replaced when they changed the distributor? The rotor? The reason I say *might* is that I believe there are some high voltage designs that don’t tolerate this test and may destroy the coil. But maybe it’s worth a try if nothing else works. If you had a motorcycle I’d tell you to check the temperature of each header pipe (on a cold engine) to see if one of them is significantly cooler than the others (thus telling you which cylinder is not firing consistently), but with short headers like cars have that probably won’t work. Oh BTW look out for shocks when pulling those high tension leads, heh.
“well…you don’t get paid for the hours of diagnosis. Mr. Service Manager knows your name, and not in a good way.”
Joel, are you saying what I think you’re saying? That the poor mechanic who got stuck with the Xterra might not get paid for his work? I’m certainly glad I didn’t get stuck paying for the full amount of his time. And I’m miffed that he just went by the computer code when I’d been explicit about the code not being informative. But it would be awful for him if he got paid only for successful hours.
“Did the cap get replaced when they changed the distributor? The rotor?”
This I don’t know, Paul. I do know that they pulled the new distributor out and put my old one back in. It’s also clear that the rough idle problem has been worse since I got the car back from them. (Not saying they caused that; it was developing anyhow, but it has accelerated.)
Had the spark plugs changed last year, but spark plugs and oxygen sensor were among the things I’ve been wondering about. Thanks for the tips.
Another thing is to ask if the mechanics were working with a shop manual for your vehicle. If they weren’t they would not have access to diagnostic procedures in the manual. Often you can go on ebay and get manuals for your vehicle which could help them chase the problem down. I do that every time I get a motorcycle.
[Had the spark plugs changed last year,]
Could be a defective plug, as there are such things as “infant failures”. Or maybe wiring to the plug, etc.
Do you recall that the check engine light coming on coincided with the vehicle starting to run rough? If it didn’t, we might have two separate problems here.
Paul — The “service engine soon” light came on when nothing at all was happening. I had air filters and such changed then, but that didn’t shut off the light. The rough idling started more than a year later (but was the thing that finally prompted me to get serious about a repair).
The only notable thing I saw earlier was that my gas mileage has been deteriorating. I assumed that might just be due to age, but I don’t know.
And I have the manual for the car on DVD. I’m just not confident enough or savvy enough to get under the hood for anything more serious than checking loose connections, filling fluid reservoirs, checking belts, etc.
My engine began to run rough, especially at idle, last fall, then it got harder to start sometimes. My mechanic went through the wires, etc. and couldn’t find a problem. Plugs were good, etc. Looking through my maintenance records, he suggested that the fuel filter might be the problem. It should be good for 100,000 miles, but with the crappy gas we’ve been getting for a long time, he thought that might be the problem. Since I have nearly 90,000 miles on the car, it was nearly “time” anyway, so he replaced it. The car runs beautifully now.
Maybe that’s all you need?
ML — That’s another good thought. I’ve had fuel filter problems before. Not with this vehicle, but come to think of it I expect the Xterra is overdue for a fuel filter change. In addition to crappy gas, I drive in dirty, muddy conditions a lot, and that’ll play havoc.
Okay, so fuel filter is now on my list.
If your horse dies, you know not to spend money to try to get him well. If your car dies, you don’t know that an infusion of money won’t revive it. My biggest temptation with sick cars is to shoot them with the biggest guns I can find, ensuring they are beyond hope, because I hate sick cars almost more than anything else on earth. Probably because I am utterly clueless about cars.
You have the *shop* manual, not just the owner’s manual? I’m asking because I wonder what your mechanics were working with. Shop manuals almost always have full diagnostic procedures that can reliably trace problems without having to shotgun parts. Here is an example:
http://diyservicemanuals.com/nissan-xterra-service-repair-manuals/
The fact your two things (running rough and check engine light) did not coincide makes me think there are two separate problems. When you first got the light, did the mechanics tell you what the codes said? Has it always been “distributor”?
How many miles on this engine?
Paul — Yes, I have the shop manual, not just the owner’s manual. I didn’t take it to the repair shop, though. Didn’t even think of that. Figured they had their own resources.
And the code for the SES light has always been “P1320,” which translates to various things that I know make the engine run rough — which wasn’t happening until much more recently.
155,000 miles on the engine. Always well maintained.
“Probably because I am utterly clueless about cars.”
Oh yeah. Word.
Good morning Claire- I’d like to re-iterate a comment above. I’ve also never seen an ECM go bad. Not that it doesn’t happen but I’ve never seen it. The way the system is designed to work is the ECM gathers data from a variety of sensors- O2, MAP, Temp, RPM among others. The ECM then adjusts things such as timing, fuel mix, idle speed, etc to make the engine run properly. You can get into poor performance issues one two basic ways. A sensor can fail and send bad data to the ECM and when it tries to adjust performance based on the data it receives you get poor performance. The second way is if a part itself is failing but the sensor is sending the correct data, the ECM will do a ‘work around’ to keep the engine running even if poorly. Finding the failing part can be tough.
A good way to troubleshoot yourself without getting your hands dirty is to arm yourself with the codes, find and join an enthusiast’s site for your particular vehicle. Start doing thread searches for your problem and eventually you’ll find a thread where somebody had exactly the same problem and what they did to fix it.
Just guessing based on your description, I’d say a vacuum leak is very likely. One way to test is use a can of starting fluid, brake cleaner, or even WD-40 but it leaves a residue, and, with the car in idle, shoot fluid in various places lightly. If you find someplace where you get a sudden spike in RPM, that’s your leak and all you have to do is locate and fix it. Keep a fire extinguisher handy in case you have some worn bare wires trying to arc. Cars burn fast once they get going.
Very best of luck to you. At least the weather is getting better so you don’t have to stand out in the rain.
“Just guessing based on your description, I’d say a vacuum leak is very likely.”
Thank you, Mike. I appreciate the tutorial on how the ECM works. That helps explain why a mechanic would point to the ECM when the real problem is in something supplying data to the ECM. (Oh learning experiences. So painful.)
I love the suggestion of spraying fluid around the engine — though not so much the idea of answering the question, “Now HOW did you burn your car down to the wheels, exactly?”
I’ll add vacuum leak to my short list of possibilities to investigate.
Mike is right, a forum search with your code will likely be fruitful. I don’t know how I did without forums – oh yeah, cars used to be simple. 🙂 Of course this assumes the code has something to do with the poor-running engine, not necessarily so if they didn’t start happening at the same time.
Another check for vacuum leak is to apply the choke to a warm-running engine. A vacuum leak is a “too lean” condition and the choke restores the mixture to something closer to correct, so the engine will run smoother. That assumes you have a choke.
Look in your air filter to make sure there is no mouse nest in there.
Is your engine 4 or 6 cylinders? A 4 is much easier to work on. If you can pull the plugs you can check the electrode condition, which will often indicate which cylinder is bad if your problem is in a single cylinder.
Six cylinder, Paul. No choke. The air filter was replaced after the light came on last year, but I will check it again. Or at least I’ll add it to my list of things to be checked.
I could probably manage a few things on my own — checking for the mouse nest, spraying for vacuum leaks. But realistically what I need to do is get someone who is actually capable of manual diagnostics, sit down for a talk with him, and present him with a list of things to start investigating.
Crazy (but completely unsurprising) how mechanics rely so totally on computer codes when the codes are so vague and misleading. This isn’t the first time I’ve faced big repairs on a vehicle because some computer said the problem might be this, that, or the other thing and the mechanic’s response was just to take wild guesses at which expensive thing might actually need to be replaced.
I think I need to find some OLD guy who knows how to do things the old-fashioned way.
Claire. A couple years ago I changed plugs. About a year latter it started running rough. My mentor asked if I changed the plug wires. He says the wires are made so poorly that just handling them during the plug change will cause them to fail. That fixed it and since then I’ve heard several identical stories.
jj — This, too, I will check. Oh, how nice it would be if it were something so easy. Shame if the wires are that fragile, tho!
Next time I have car trouble, I’m going to e-mail Claire so I can blog it by proxy. 🙂
LOL! Yep, the Commentariat seems more on the ball than a lot of members of Nissan forums.
I’ve found one Xterra forum that looks worth joining, but once they’ve approved me for posting, I’m going to unload Commentariat wisdom on them.
Claire,
Be careful if you start pulling on wires under the hood while the car is running.
Grabbing ahold of a plug wire will give you quite a jolt
Claire,
Contact me anytime. I don’t know if you can see the email addresses from here, if not TZP has all my contact info, same username as this one.
regarding P1320, i found this info. the computer is complaining that it’s not seeing the ignition signal from the coil. apparently the coil & the cam sensor in the xterra is all inside the distributor and that’s why they replaced the whole unit. i assume they also checked the wire to the coil in that 1 hour and finally decided the ECM is at fault for not receiving the signal. maybe a critter chewed the wire going from the ignition coil back to the ECM?
if the code is cleared, how long does it take to come back?
any other codes?
here’s how i would break it down:
problems:
1) rough idle
2) service engine code
related? probably. if you have an annual inspection, the car would not pass with the CEL (MIL/SESL) anyway, so may as well take care of that first. if resolving the ignition issue does not solve the rough idle then you could chase vacuum leaks, etc.
the code —
my understanding is that the ECM sends a signal to the ignition coil. then it is somehow fed back to the ECM. that is how the ECM detects proper operation. if the ECM fails to detect the signal properly, it could be in several areas:
a) is the ECM generating a signal? — probably, otherwise car wouldn’t start
b) is the ECM signal reaching the the coil? — probably, otherwise car wouldn’t start
c) is the ignition primary side producing the return signal? presumably so with the new distributor
d) is the generated signal within the correct specification range? make sure they were using an OEM distributor. they shop may have used a new aftermarket brand that operated outside of the specs. operational range may need to be measured.
e) is the return signal being carried to the ECM? the shop manual should indicate which pin on the ECM has this return signal. this could be tapped and checked during operation.
f) is the ECM seeing the return signal? if the signal is good all the way back to the ECM, then you may conclude that the ECM is broken, in that it is at fault for not seeing a proper signal. loose solder, etc.
the shop manual you have on DVD should also have step by step diagnostics for P1320. i suggest you take a look. not necessarily for the purpose of doing it, but at least being armed with the information to ask the mechanic.. did you check this? did you measure that? can you show me.. so forth.
Ugh that sounds so awfully familiar of my last couple weeks minus having pets to come home to. My heart genuinely goes out cause that all sounds like a major ass pain.
Fuel Injection is such a blessing and a curse. I was pretty horrified when I found out that the new Devil Machine would need a $500 tuning module from ‘screamin’ eagle’ and a not so cheap specialist that knows how to decipher all the crap on the computer screen to merely put a proper exhaust and an intake on it (which clearly I still haven’t done.) The best part is that they make $200 tuners that work a hundred times better, but if I use one of those then Harley will laugh it out of the shop if I have a problem…and my 5 year everything warranty is a bit too good to pass up.
It’s advanced, it’s sexy and powerful and I love it and yet it makes me really, really envy those vehicles of days not that long ago where all you needed to make such adjustments was turning a flathead screwdriver until it stops making that crackly noise.
Same with my stupid Jeep. How did that joke go…’What makes an orange glow that you can see from space?’ ‘the check engine lights of a bunch of jeeps out camping together at night’
KiA — Although I’ve had a printout of that code 1320 page in my files for quite a while, I haven’t been able to make heads or tales of how it relates to my Xterra’s problem beyond, “This says it’s the distributor, but it’s not.”
“make sure they were using an OEM distributor. they shop may have used a new aftermarket brand that operated outside of the specs.”
They did use a new aftermarket distributor. It’s hard to imagine that a distributor that claims to be for this vehicle would simply fail to send a normal, proper signal, but I guess it’s possible. As I understand it, that one distributor design fits a lot of models from different carmakers. Wiring … they say they checked.
But I guess the next step is as you say, for me to go to the manual myself. Gods forbid.
1320 is the only code showing — at least as far as anyone has told me.
Thank you for taking the time to do all that thinking and for putting it down in pixels.
“It’s advanced, it’s sexy and powerful and I love it and yet it makes me really, really envy those vehicles of days not that long ago where all you needed to make such adjustments was turning a flathead screwdriver until it stops making that crackly noise.”
Oh, Winston, you said it. I hope it helps that at least the machine you’re having to jump through hoops for is sexy and fun. Can’t say that about a 15-year-old Dogmobile. But at least I don’t have to worry about pleasing Nissan to meet warranty requirements.
A wire pulling anecdote – I had a truck that was old, started to run rough, then got so bad it would die as soon as you moved it. Started pulling things loose with it running (not the plug wires) and found that when I unplugged the mass air flow sensor I could actually drive the thing. Bought a new one at NAPA and was a happy camper.
About 9 years agoni slipped in wet grass and broke my ankle. I didn’t even think it was broken, but I’d broken the malleolus bone on the outside below the protruding bone. It got about the size of a grapefruit and the color of badly bruised fruit. If this sounds familiar now, you may want medical attention. But there are two things I can tell you that may be useful.
Once I learned what I’d done, idealized I’d broken the other one in the 80’s and didn’t know. I thought it was sprained so I just gimped around. It took about 6 weeks to feel normal, but normal function took longer to return.
The most recent time I was told they don’t ‘cast’ ankles for a malleolus bone now, they just give you a soft cast. Mine wouldn’t stay put so after about a week I switched to high-top boots. Mine were 10″ packers, and they gave me enough support to walk in a relatively normal fashion. At least I was able to stop hopping about with a cane and only use it in case my ankle gave out – which it didn’t. The bots provided fully adjustable support as my ankle required by swelling as the day went along.
“Joel, are you saying what I think you’re saying? That the poor mechanic who got stuck with the Xterra might not get paid for his work?”
You don’t think the management took any more of a bath on that job than it had to, do you? Oh, hell no. Assuming he actually spent all that time exclusively on the XTerra, which is possible but not certain, your mechanic had a very bad day.
Which is, I suppose, as it must be. For all its flaws, flat rate had one great virtue – it is a peerless incentive for getting your head out of your ass and rolling iron out the door.
david — Ugh. Thanks. It’s more swollen today than yesterday or Monday, but not grapefruit territory. Colorful, too, but nothing unusual, I think.
They don’t cast for malleolus bones? Aside from the fact that I didn’t know I had such a thing as a malleolus bone, that’s interesting. It looks as if the drugstore might even have soft casts now.
I don’t suspect broken bones (but then, I didn’t suspect them when I banged my toe last year and the Commentariat was probably right that it was broken). But I’ll keep an eye out.
Yup, I second, (or is that third), the pulling of wires. Start with just wiggling them around while running. I pulled a spark plug wire completely off one time and absolutely nothing happened… bingo found the problem. Plus if you are getting a bad input signal to the computer, just pulling the connection at the sensor, (start with oxygen sensor, maybe?), it might clear the problem. Also, there was a way to trip out* the ECM in an old toyota I had, *paperclip across two connections, and the computer would stop trying to adjust timing. Always made a noticeable difference and actually seemed to get the engine to run better after it was hot. As for online forums, unless you have done something wildly out of the norm to your vehicle, your problem has already happened to someone and likely been thoroughly discussed. So it becomes just a matter of finding the right thread, aka. how good is your Google Fu?
[a) is the ECM generating a signal? — probably, otherwise car wouldn’t start
b) is the ECM signal reaching the the coil? — probably, otherwise car wouldn’t start
c) is the ignition primary side producing the return signal? presumably so with the new distributor
d) is the generated signal within the correct specification range? make sure they were using an OEM distributor. they shop may have used a new aftermarket brand that operated outside of the specs. operational range may need to be measured.
e) is the return signal being carried to the ECM? the shop manual should indicate which pin on the ECM has this return signal. this could be tapped and checked during operation.
f) is the ECM seeing the return signal? if the signal is good all the way back to the ECM, then you may conclude that the ECM is broken, in that it is at fault for not seeing a proper signal. loose solder, etc.]
I concur with this. Notice that you are really left with only e or f, and f is very unlikely. So just e. This would give the symptoms we are looking for PRIOR to the car running rough: Swapping the distributor does nothing, Check Engine Light (CEL) on, car running OK. In other words, it’s a CEL we can safely ignore. And the running rough is a problem unrelated to the CEL.
Note there is no way for the computer to check the performance of the coil secondary side; the voltages are too high (unless I’m mistaken). I doubt there is any code for a bad spark plug or plug wires. It’s probably not a bad idea to just buy some plugs and plug wires and replace them yourself, to eliminate this possibility.
But don’t forget to check the intake for mice; there might not be a way for the ECU to detect that either. I have had mice inside my intake more than once; they are a curse in the NW for cars parked outside. I usually rig a cover for my air box intake out of hardware cloth to filter the mice out…
Here is a photo of my “mouse filter” in my previous car (notice the hardware cloth). Of course then the mice made a nest just outside the mouse filter, but at least it was not in my air cleaner box. Mice chewing on air filters is not a good thing…
Oops, forgot the link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Zxcv12003/CopyofDSCF0011.jpg
Claire, it may be a bone chip off the malleolus (inner). I had that a few years ago when I stepped into an unstable mole hill and twisted my ankle. I pulled a tendon, and did the RICE thing, but had to continue working, so it took a while (several weeks) to heal. It should have been casted, and is now permanently swollen, but without pain.
I would guess that they used a “reman”distributor? Or as someone above suggested, an offshore replacement? I did a quick search on P1320 in an xterra. It seems the cam position sensor as well as the ignition system are both contained in the distributor. Using your DVD shop manual, and an oscilloscope, the mechanic *should* be able to look at the signal wave forms for each set of signals. If one or both are out of spec, it would require replacement. It is not at all impossible for new or remanufactured parts to be defective…If the signals are within spec at the distributor connector, they can then check right at the ecu connector… Also an old fashioned Ignition scope could be used to look at the coil output both the “pattern” as well as the output voltage. Also, has anyone verified the basics yet? Compression good? Injectors clean and good spray patterns? You might want to arrange some “time” at the shop with the clear understanding that this sort of tests be performed..Guessing just does not work, and is not cost effective.I have had to replace very few ECUs in the 35 plus years I have been a mechanic. Hope your ankle heals swiftly.
The way I was taught to find a vacuum leak is use one of those small propane torches [the one with the 1 lb. cylinder]. You turn on the gas [but don’t light it] and run the tip by the vacuum lines. When the RPM’s jump there’s your culprit. It’s such a small amount of propane coming out of the bottle that unless your in an enclosed space and/or smoking it’s safe. A bonus is it leaves no residue.
“I would guess that they used a “reman”distributor? Or as someone above suggested, an offshore replacement?”
They told me it was a new part but not an OEM part, and they couldn’t give me a brand name, which does suggest China. Thank you for looking into things — apparently better than the supposed “best shop in town” did!
I’m very distressed that there were all these apparently fairly easy things you guys know about that they could have checked that they didn’t even think to check. With a little help from my Commentariat friends and in particular one who’s patiently walking me though some steps I’ll check things out myself as soon as my &^%$#@ ankle permits. But oh, I long to find an old-fashioned mechanic who knows how to do diagnostics that go beyond reading computer codes!