The dogs and I are getting to know the logging roads near my new house. Logging roads are familiar territory, even though these specific roads aren’t, and we have an established routine with them. If a road is gated but open to walk-ins, we never enter if somebody else’s vehicle is parked near the gate. If a road is open to vehicles, I cruise it in the truck to see if anyone else is around before settling on a place to walk.
Don’t want to disturb any hunters or other dog walkers — and don’t want to disturb my own peace. My dogs raise alerts over strangers and have a habit of running at those they meet in the woods at full tilt, barking their heads off and mostly ignoring me when I demand they return.
Yes, I know I’m supposed to have perfect control over my critters, including perfect recall. But they’re not perfect — and neither am I. The backwoods life we’ve always led together just hasn’t involved that many encounters with strangers in the woods. Most of the time, we’re the only domesticated creatures out there. So accept our flaws, please.
This morning the new road was gated but with no vehicles, so in we went — and very quickly disturbed a bow hunter who was walking toward us on a side road talking on his cellphone. The dogs caterwauled and charged — though in a way that anybody who knows dogs would recognize as all bark and no bite. The hunter knew that and simply ignored them. They sniffed his legs then came back to me. I apologized profusely, and we each went our separate ways. I figured the hunter lived nearby and had walked in.
Little did I know that we were exploring an unusually complex complex of roads, and as we took a side ATV trail, we were soon to intersect with that very same hunter again further along. This time, the dogs kept their distance, but little Ava carried on like the fearsome creature she imagines herself to be. Then, keeping up her caterwaul, she followed him at a distance, embarrassingly ignoring my demands for her return. When it looked as if Nadja was going to do a “monkey-see/monkey-do” with Ava, the hunter stopped, turned around, leaned toward them and bellowed — at the top of his lungs, but with absolutely no hint of anger or malice — “OH YEAH???”
Ava and Nadja wheeled, quit yapping, and — like cannonballs — sped back to the safety of Mom.
I snapped the hunter a salute, called, “Thank you!” and after that presumably we both had peace.
The reason I relate this is the non-news: The hunter, well-armed, never made the smallest gesture of aggression toward the dogs and never for a moment appeared to think he was in danger. I hate to admit it, but dogs and I have startled bow hunters in the woods two or three times over the decades, and the hunters are invariably polite and forgiving.
Now … what if the hunter had been a cop? Off duty or on. Radley Balko writes about the huge and growing crime of puppycide. Which is, of course, never counted as a crime because it’s committed by police in the name of “officer safety.” Lost cops stopping to ask directions have murdered household pets who came dashing up to them with less ill-intent than my dogs displayed to that hunter. Cops have killed five-pound lapdogs, claiming they felt “threatened.” They’ve shot dogs that were tied up. Dogs that were running away from them. Dogs that were hiding under tables. They shoot dogs even more casually than they shoot innocent human beings.
I can’t write the stuff Balko does about dog murders because it upsets me too much.
But you do gotta wonder: If well-armed hunters, startled in the woods where they expected to be alone, don’t feel the need to kill my dogs — if the media isn’t filled with tales of dogs slaughtered by mail carriers, UPS drivers, and meter readers (in fact, a meter-reader came into my yard on Friday, with all three dogs present, and simply handed them all dog cookies from his pocket) — what the hell is it with cowardly, bullying, ill-trained — and always exonerated, of course — cops?
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And yep — I’m back now! On Friday, the Comcast installer came and efficiently brought me home Internet — very zippy Internet, at that. Took me a while to get wireless working, but everything is good now and I’m ready to blog as usual once again.
I admit that, right now, my mind is focused on whether that shade of mauve is really the right one for the living room and how much rain will fall into the garage now that the roofer has torn the shakes off of two sides of it. And when I’m not thinking about that, I’m working on the Paladin book, which is due by the end of this month. Startlingly brilliant observations on politics and freedom just aren’t available for blogging this very minute. But … I’ll do my best to keep the blog entries coming three or four times a week and I promise not to turn too many of them into meditations on the proliferation (and particular stickiness) of cobwebs in 100-year-old houses. 🙂
Nothing gets me more upset and stiffens my resolve never to support the po po than reports of dog shootings. We had an off duty open shoot a chihuahua with a 357 because he “Felt threatned”. I could just image it will be a matter of time before he pops a person for the same reason.
It seems like they old adage “If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.”
I have warned the wife under no circumstances is she to open the door to the police without first putting the dogs in their crates. I hate to think what would happen if one of the locals were to take it upon themselves to shoot one of mine. I don’t call them my “fur kids” for nothing and will treat any threat accordingly.
Woo Hoo! So glad you’re back on the Internet, missed you Claire!
I’m afraid of what I’d do if my dog was shot for “officer safety”. Probably spend the rest of my life in jail.
Welcome back!! And I’d be in the cell next to Sam if any of our babies were shot. I suppose our toy poodles are more threatening than a chihuahua, but holy crap. That guy probably thought the chi was going to bite his tiny tool off. Darn I’m glad I live in the woods.
I’m sorry, but dog’s need to be leashed at all times. I’m a real estate appraiser and have been reassurend many times by homeowners that their dogs are harmless and will not bite, but have been bitten twice in the owner’s yard, with the owner’s present while conducting an appraisal. If you own dog’s that is your right, but it also my right to defend myself if threathened in any way by a dog that is not leashed. It is no different if I’m in the woods and I’m threatened by a bear or a cougar to defend myself. If it was me I would have shot the dogs. Sorry, but I do not want to be bit.
I think things have gotten worse nowadays with the cops so called “fear” of dogs. I still think whenever they meet a dog, they’d think “Hey, free target practice”, and to get a notch onto their belt for having “taken a life”.
Speaking of nowadays, you may be interested in the bygone-days of yesterdays. Actual color photographs of the 30s and 40s. Once you start, don’t stop til you’ve seen a couple photos of two kids fishing. You’d think you were looking at a color photo if not a realistic painting of a couple boys fishing in the late 1800s. It’s that good.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/sets/72157603671370361/
One warning though, if you’re anything like me, you’ll spend hours with this site. : )
Jim B.
Sorry, Jimmy S. I’m not going to leash my dogs when I’m out in the woods with no anticipation of meeting anybody. In 20 years of walking dogs in the middle of nowhere every day, I’ve met perhaps five or six people and no harm has come either to humans or dogs. Yes, my dogs did behave badly the other day and I’m embarrassed about it. Had that hunter reacted defensively, I’d have understood and considered myself at fault. But I’m not going to deny my dogs happiness and healthy exercise on the off chance that, once every few years, we might encounter somebody out there.
That said, the real point of my post was that those who know they’ll often be encountering dogs in the course of their work (e.g. mail carriers, delivery drivers, meter readers, and cops) have choices about how to deal with them — and with the exception of police officers, make choices to deal with dogs non-violently. Homeowners who know a stranger is coming to the house have the opportunity (and I agree, the duty) to confine their canines or leash them until rapport is safely established. But when cops kick down the door without knocking — or just seconds after knocking — that opportunity and that duty go out the window. If other uniformed strangers can deal every day with household dogs without killing them, then cops, who know their entry is going to be especially disruptive, have an even greater duty to know how to handle dogs without simply slaughtering them as their first and only option.
I’ve volunteered in animal welfare on and off for 20 years. I’ve picked up, helped capture, or fostered dogs that were scared, barking, of unknown temperament, known biters, injured, sick, or defensive — and I’ve never felt the need to murder one of them because of their behavior. Heck, I even got bit by a dog a couple of weeks ago while gathering blueberries (it was an accident; I was tossing a stick for one of the farmer’s dogs and another big guy was over-eager to grab it and got my hand, instead). But I wasn’t harmed and sure never considered pulling out my gun and potting the pooch.
I would consider shooting, or clobbering with a stick, a dog that was clearly on the attack (not just barking but charging at me with teeth bared and deadly intent), or one that had its teeth in me and clearly wasn’t intending to let go. But short of that, there are other ways of handling the situation.
In short, I totally agree that dog owners have the responsibility to be prudent. But even more do police have the obligation to be trained and prepared to behave responsibly toward household pets. Puppycide by police is a crime committed by cowards and bullies who aren’t fit to be in positions of responsibility.
Here(Central Kentucky), if a meter reader or postal-type person feels threatened by an animal-you won’t get your mail delivered(and a nastygram from the Post Office), or the meter reader will estimate your power/gas/water consumption instead of reading the meter(this usually costs you more). I’ve never heard of anyone killing a dog(or cat)in those situations. At worst, the animal gets sprayed with “Halt” or something similar(pepper juice). There’s also taser-ish high voltage(but very low amperage)and ultrasonic devices to make an animal back off without causing any injury. The only time I’ve heard of a pet being shot is if the animal is suspected of being rabid,or if the animal is clearly on the attack-really rare events. Cops shooting pets is really bad publicity for the police,if nothing else, especially in rural areas(where I lived most of my life).
Side note-my dad was a mailman, and he carried dog biscuits or a couple cans of cheap vienna sausages-nearly 100% effective.
Anyone who “feels threatened” by a dog that’s small enough to be pushed out of the way with your foot is a coward who has no business carrying a badge.
I would venture to say that “feeling” threatened is a lame excuse, period. The whole reason the police exists is to take care of THREATS so everyone else can go about their day…so again, anyone who has to shoot terriers or tase small children because they got hurt feelings really ought to find a different line of work.
If cops can kill our dogs for “safety reasons” without consequence, then we should be able to kill cop dogs too, no? You can’t claim that a K9 unit is a cop equivalent and then deny that Fido is a citizen-equivalent.
Jimmy S,
Bad for business to be shooting dogs….Especially in Boise.
Why not try a little pepper spray if your manhood (or lack therof) is threatened…….
First of all, my manhood is not the question here. If a dog is intent on rushing you with teeth bared and barking what is different than if being attacked by say another human with a weapon. Why is it when someone feels threatened by an animal there is supposedly always better ways to handle the situation than stopping the animal with whatever is needed. As stated I was bitten twice, without any provacation by me, while performing my job after being insured by the animal’s owners that no harm would come to me. In one of these instances the bite required stitches to close the wound. So what you are saying is I should just stand by and allow this to happen. Sorry, that will not happen. Again, that is why there are leash laws, and yes I know that in many rural areas leashing is not required, but also I have the right to defend myself from any potential harm, human or animal alike.
On my first hunting trip for large game, my hunting partner instructed me: “If you see a dog in the woods at any time, SHOOT IT, because they will run a deer down until it dies. Hunters KNOW not to bring their dogs into the woods for anything except small game.
You were very fortunate that the other hunter didn’t shoot your dog!
think your callsign says it…in my expeiriance,”non-biting” dogs only bite people who are s–tbirds…o are scared….
I really don’t mean to harp on this subject, but I guess my final question would be is why do you feel that I should restrain my actions toward an agressive animal if you do not feel it necessary to restrain that animal? Why should I have to determine whether or not this animal will attack or not? It is your pet, is it not your responsibilty to insure it’s ultimate safety. You are the one putting it in harms way if you do not. I have a right to be on public lands without feeling threatened in any way by you or your animal. I’m not going to take any action if not threatened, so why should you worry.
As a outdoors men and dog owner I have mixed feelings on this subject. I myself would not be in the timber near hunting areas during season, especially with loose dogs. I wouldn’t want anyone disturbing my hunt or me theirs.
Owning large dogs myself [akitas], you have a responsibility. They are both ninety+ dogs and can be very intimidating. They are both people friendly, but animal aggressive. I wouldn’t be surprised if they acted aggressive towards humans and were shot. I’ve seen what they can do first hand. That’s why their in kennels now and not on chains. No people were ever hurt, but not all the dogs running loose ever made it home!
As far as shooting a chihuahua no, but a medium to large dog yes. Not everyone knows animals and how to read them. I’m not condoning shooting animals outright, that’s why officers carry mace and batons, as a none lethal alternative. Which both work well, I’ve learned first hand!
It’s up to people to use good judgment and common sense on both sides. Both are something the world is sorely lacking these days.
Jimmy S.,
I’m not saying that the owner (including this owner) doesn’t have an obligation to restrain an animal. On the contrary!
I do run my dogs in the woods where I have no expectation of meeting people, but under every other circumstance — at home, around the neighborhood, while traveling — they’re confined in the yard, leashed, or occasionally crated. AND if you were coming to my house to appraise it, I’d lock the dogs up until/unless I knew that you and they were okay with each other.
The woods (which aren’t public, BTW) are dangerous. They’re the home of bears, cougars, coyotes, and other predators, and anybody who goes out there is inherently, at least a little bit, unsafe. I do everything I can to stay away from other people in the woods. But I also expect that others who are out there will be alert to danger and will be prepared to use judgment about whether any animal encounter threatens them or not. As I said, if that hunter had chosen to defend himself against my dogs, I’d have understood and regarded the whole situation as my own fault.
But as I say again, the real purpose of my post was to point out that people who know they’re going to encounter dogs in the course of their work have choices about how to deal with them. It’s about choices, that’s all.
jerimia,
You make a good point about not being in the woods during hunting season, especially with dogs. I should clarify that I stay out of the woods during elk and deer firearms hunting seasons (or go only to places where the growth is so dense that firearms hunters don’t go). I don’t want to disturb anybody’s hunts or have any hunters disturb my health or the dogs’! Generally, with bow hunters, there are very few around the areas I’ve been. And when one is in an an area where I’m considering walking, I’ll spot his vehicle first and stay away.
This time I made a mistake — and it was definitely, without a doubt my. mistake — of walking into a gated area not realizing that it had another, apparently ungated, entrance. That’s unusual. But it was my error and I’ll be more careful there in the future.
Jimmy S,
You write: “So what you are saying is I should just stand by and allow this to happen. Sorry, that will not happen. Again, that is why there are leash laws, and yes I know that in many rural areas leashing is not required, but also I have the right to defend myself from any potential harm, human or animal alike.”
First of all, I’m sorry that people are making this personal. It shouldn’t be. But I don’t think anybody is saying you should just stand there and allow yourself to be bitten. As someone whose profession might lead to regular encounters with dogs, you could, for instance, tell the homeowner that you will do the appraisal only if their animals are confined. (Leashed may not be a good idea; leashing often leads to aggressive behavior in close encounters with strangers and other animals.) Yes, maybe the homeowner should already do that, in anticipation of your arrival. But if they don’t, then you have a choice — ask for the animal to be confined, refuse to do the appraisal if a loose dog is present, or take the risk.
My mother nearly had her face bitten off by a chihuahua when she was younger. Small dogs can be more dangerous than most people realize.
No one in my family has ever been attacked by a large dog, but every one of us has been attacked at some point by a small dog, sometimes needing stitches, and, in at least one case, rabies shots.
I don’t agree with anyone who shoots a dog that is NOT showing aggression, but I also don’t think the size of the dog has any bearing on it. If my mom had been armed during that chihuahua attack, you can bet she would have shot it.
Well, it happened here-a cop shot a pet(dog) while chasing a suspect. The yard was,from what I’m told, fenced in and marked with with “No Trespassing” and “Beware of Dog” signs. The owner wasn’t the suspect, whoever the cop was chasing just cut through his yard. A coworker leaves nearby,and was talking about it.
It seems to me that Cops shoot dogs because they can get away with it. Appears to be the same reason Cops shoot people that were ultimately unarmed, becuase they believed they could get away with it. If I shoot a non-attacking dog or person, because I was “afraid” of them, I would go to jail.
I walk my dogs frequently without leashes, but in the countryside and away from people. I keep an eye out for other people, dogs and critters that might interact negatively with my dogs. My biggest problem is keeping little kids away from my dogs, whether leashed or not. Dogs love the kids, but kids don’t always want to rough-house or be licked intently.
Jimmy S.
I have no issue with somebody defending themselves from deadly peril….far from it
What I take issue with is your statement………
“If it was me I would have shot the dogs. Sorry, but I do not want to be bit.”
So let me get this straight…..this *is* the scenario you were talking about right?
You are walking along in the woods before/during/after hunting, talking on your cell phone. You ’round a corner, and see some dogs running towards you barking and carrying on, followed by their owner some distance off who is yelling trying to get the dogs to obey.
You are saying here that you would draw a gun and shoot the dogs right in front of the owner?
Really?
well…any so called “police officer” shooys one of my dog, for any reason (and I am present), you can bet your bottom dollar that S.O.B. Will have to earn his pay that day! I have been dog-bit numerous and never saw the need for lethal force…force, yes…violent force. But not lethal. Guess this all is simply another manifestation of the WIMP culture…
I had a dog years ago, Rowlf, who would run up to visitors, teeth bared and going “rowf, rowf, rrrrrrr….” but he was just making conversation and smiling at them. Never bit or threatened anyone.
Of course we lived out in the country and almost every visitor was a friend. If we weren’t home neither was Rowlf because he was with us.
Only a coward, as pointed out, shoots an unarmed animal (as are they all) because he “feels” threatened. I have “felt” threatened over the phone, never once had to shoot the thing.
Sir,the phone lunged at me in a threatening manner…therfore I 12 gauged it into oblivion!!
Didn’t mean to put you on the spot there Claire. I’m from central
Illinios, where there is a sign in sheet at the gate of every public hunting area. Hunters sign in and out, enabling new comers to see if the area is occupied. This is done for all seasons. No harsh feelings, just my opinion on the subject at hand.
Most police officers I know (and I am a reserve officer so I know a few), learn dog savvy skills pretty quick. Most go to the pepper spray when threatened by a dog (or perceiving a threat). This occasionally get pre-empted by fatigue, poor judgment or situation. For instance, in an escalated threat situation when their gun is already out and they are confronted with a K9 threat they sometimes may not have time to reholster their firearm and draw their pepper spray (they really need to get four armed officers so they can talk on the radio, hold the gun, the OC and their flashlight at the same time).
The other thing is many problems with LE are the fault of society for putting them in those situations. Humans are not made to have the kind of authority that they do without it affecting them. Police should not have the sweeping authority that they do. Additionally if we are going to give them the responsibility and power that they do we have an obligation to resource them properly. The pay to attract the best, to allow us to select only those that pass the most stringent tests of skill, judgment and character. The training to make good decisions, not getting pissy with police departments who want to take time on the clock to train. Many communities become outraged with any time police spend on the clock not “being out there protecting us”. Finally the budget to make sure police officers do not ride by themselves, fear of having to deal with danger alone has probably caused more stupid decisions by LE than any other single factor.
These things wont fix LE problems, but they will help mitigate them. If society wont fix itself and reduce the size of government than it should at least do the wrong thing correctly.