Today is another busy day of construction and deconstruction here at Ye Olde House. A note from a friend summed matters up perfectly (I paraphrase): “Old homes have character — and sometimes are characters.” Ayup. These things must be coped with!
Today again I won’t have a lot, but with luck the time spent painting and drywalling will be meditative and will produce Brilliant Thoughts. Later.
So I’m throwing another question at you: How prepared are you to deal with unprepared people?
This is a perennial question of course but I bring it up because of something a non-political friend said yesterday. When the Japanese quake hit, our area was put under a tsunami warning. In her town, many people took the warning seriously enough to flee into the hills. Not one of them — not one — carried a bug-out-bag. Not even a little backpack with bottles of water and a few granola bars in it.
The local version of the tsunami fizzled. Everybody went home. No problem. People who lived in the hills, though, were horrified.
Afterward, regional emergency preparedness officials conducted meetings to discuss future tsunami preparations, and some people at the meetings thought the government should be stockpiling supplies up in the hills. Major not-getting-it-ness.
How have you personally prepared for an onslaught of the unprepared? Not talking about “bloody zombie invasion after the fall of civilization.” Just “what do you do when unprepared friends, strangers, and family members turn up on your doorstep?”
My friend (who lives on a hill) surprised me. She’s as mild-mannered as can be and is the soul of nurturing and charitableness. Her response (besides starting to make her own bug-out bag): “I need to get out my gun and get some practice in how to use it.” She also told her friends they’re welcome at her house — but they’d better bring their own edibles.
I have inlaws who say that in the event of a disaster they are going to come to live with me. I don’t worry too much about it because it is very unlikely that they will realize that they need to leave before it is too late for them to get out. I have told them that in the unlikely event that they do make it here they hadn’t better show up empty handed.
I have enough of everything to take care of my neighbors for a time, and they are more important to me than some vaguely related city folks who think it’s my job to take care of them. In the end, if the inlaws do make it, I’ll have to put up with them, I guess.
Should the marauding hordes from the city make it to my door (unlikely) I guess that’s why I took all those tactical training classes before I became a poor hermit.
Great question.
Simple answer might be, if you live in a refuge zone instead of a bug-out zone, is stock a little extra for others. Set up a place where strangers moving through could get water. Maybe a spigot, unfenced portion of a stream, stock tank etc. Remove the need for them to venture onto your property. My parents have done this with several differnet properties when living off the grid, to allow neighbors the ability to fill water barrels etc.
I deal with the unprepared every day. I work overages into my plans so I can be charitable with strangers. I deliberately stock extra food, water, toiletries so I can help others. I don’t feel obligated to help anybody though. If I don’t like the looks, or don’t feel comfortable with someone, I send them packing. When friends, relatives, neighbors start to get that free loady look, I send them along. I feed the poor and homeless as I can. There are some homeless I would welcome in a bug out caravan and there are “respected” commmunity members I would drive off with a gun. You are not welcome on my property unless I know you and have invited you. Even my kids call ahead.
The people I know would be a problem (in-laws, sheeple friends) would likely not make it out of the city they live in. They wouldn’t have gas to get to me or the ability to move ahead of the pack before things got bad.
I help guide my parents toward more preparation so that between us there shouldn’t be any problem. (They only live a few blocks away from me.) My mom’s a natural hoarder of USEFUL items, anyway. And they live in her parents’ house which is full of useful things hoarded by her parents throughout the decades.
As for the others, I have written in the local paper about things that responsible people should be doing today to prepare. I know that probably only a small percentage of locals even take the paper and probably only a small fraction of those read my columns, but to me that qualifies as fair warning. My responsibility is to myself and my family, and I will not allow the Non-Preparers to threaten that. I’ll be nice and helpful when I can, but after that…
All of my true friends here are at least as well prepared as I am. And we are prepared to back each other up if the crunch hits. Everyone else I know lives too far away to matter.
But no, I’m not prepared to hand out to total strangers what I’ve worked so hard all my life to save. And I’m not prepared to trust them with my life either. They’ll have to go somewhere else.
Anyone who knows me, knows I put up extra, when and where I can. My Hubby’s job can be feast or famine at times, so I have to be prepared at all times to keep things level for our Kid in times of famine.
We do have friends who are very much little grasshoppers to my ant…meaning I put up and save, while they play. That’s fine for them, and I have been very clear that I stock up for my family, not to support others who’d rather play.
Thing is, I’m not terribly worried about a Zombie Apocalypse-cause if that happens, I’m not sure I have enough ammo…not sure I’d ever have enough ammo!-I stock and prepare for the unknown what ifs. The tsunamis-though being inland, it’s not a concern-the tornados…or even something like food prices going all out of whack. Those things concern me more, and I wonder why the grasshoppers I know aren’t concern by them.
At the end of the day, I’m not too interested in helping out those who’ve turned a blind eye to the possibilty of their lives going off track, and done nothing to prepare in the event of a crisis, personal or otherwise.
Most of my friends/family who live nearby are not interested in preparing. We plan to leave here when a problem arises. We will hang with a few friends who are somewhat prepared. We will exchange our skills and we will all share what we have. For the unprepared who come looking for a handout, if they want help, they will have to offer something in return.
Y2K, while a fizzle, did get our attention. We reasoned that while a disaster was highly unlikely, the results if one did occur would be quite nasty. We “prepared”.
We remain prepared today. Our stock rotation still produces the occasional thing or two from 1999, which in most cases is still good. Preparedness has become a way of life with us.
Some of our friends are aware of our foresight, and mention the “we’ll come to you in case of trouble” scenario. Our response is usually that while they’d be welcome to pitch their tent in our back yard, they’d best bring their own food along. That gets some strange looks and nervous laughter.
Hope we never have to test our resolve.
If you’re in the country, the “marauding city hordes” are unlikely to be a factor.
Your local – county or town – law enforcement will be your greatest threat. No matter how tight you think you are with Officer Friendly, he’s already accustomed to taking orders from what will be, in the event of a breakdown, your all powerful local baron. Even if reluctantly, for the sake of his buddies, his own family, and the rationalizations he already has in place regarding “duty” and “order,” he’s going to follow orders.
Which will be the loot the vile, heartless hoarders – those who prepared, in other words – with maximum violence if necessary. All for the common good, of course.
Victor said: “Your local – county or town – law enforcement will be your greatest threat.”
Yeah, you’re probably right. I live in an area without local law enforcement. We are “served” by the State Police, and fortunately there are not many of them. Even so, it hasn’t escaped my notice that the government is, and always has been, the bane of my existence. That is a problem I hope I don’t have to deal with but also one I have not overlooked in my preparations.
My friends are a lot like MamaLiberty’s-they’re probably better off than I am,and we back each other up. There are those I would help in such a situation,but they are few and far between. A total stranger? Possibly-if they could convince me they would be a benefit for me to do so,but that’s way down on the list of things likely to happen.
I’ve noticed a couple of things, from my own disaster experience and from certain stories I’ve read about Japan – 1. The ones who head for the shelters tend to stay there. And 2. As soon as the water ebbs, the people tend to flow back (sorry, bad pun, LOL) into their home areas even if there isn’t much left to it.
In other words, if they make it out of the way in time, they also go back as quickly as possible…..just thought I’d toss that out there as a fyi to those who wonder/worry about what will head their way and if they’d ever leave/move on (easily or at gun point)……otoh, it’s also good to note that nothing ends as quickly as that sounds, either, people will be needy for years to come afterwards…..if the initial disaster doesn’t get em, the aftermath will somehow……
Every time I watch a tornado-hit area, sometimes every year they go thru one, those people seem to go right back to building on the same spot they’ve been hit…..Which makes me think those people don’t go very far after a disaster, either…..
A bigger majority (than I would have thought would) leave the area completely – assuming the economy/gas prices lets them do that…those people usually head to places far away that they have family/friends at……out of the 250 homes affected by the flood (we were in) only 42 remained here (also must add that the economy tanked at about the same time, and things are dismal)…..
My point is, I think that anyone who may wander thru your areas probably won’t want to squat there looking to be taken care of the rest of their lives…
I agree with Victor, altho I’d expand that to gov people in general & not just LEO…..someone will march in and tell you what’s “in your best interest,” or “the general public welfare’s best interest” guaranteed……
I’m in the unique (unfortunate) position to have gone from been a “super prepper” into a sadly unprepared one….but I promise I won’t show up on anyone’s doorstep 🙂 – I’m too busy trying to catch up to where I was before….
I’ve observed that people tend to go back where they came from because a) they don’t have or know any other place to go, and b) “home” is the devil you know rather than the devil you don’t – i.e. they feel more comfortable with surroundings and people they’re familiar with. Even when their physical home no longer exists. No one wants to be in “a stranger in a strange land” when disaster strikes.
I’m not sure if rural is safer than urban or not. (And that means I really AM NOT SURE.) People sometimes become Jekyl-and-Hydes in unfamiliar settings. When they run, they might feel desperate, scared or hungry enough to act out against strangers what they wouldn’t think to do in their home environment. And city folks might feel less guilty (or at least safer from being caught) breaking into an isolated farmhouse or stealing from a garden or barn than they would breaking into a grocery store in downtown Podunk. (I think it goes without saying that rural people will most likely *not* run to the city during a disaster.)
I’m stocking up, and have friends who are as well; and they and I will lean on each other. There are a number of farms, urban farmers (small town) and independent people in my area. Strangers are a different matter. I wouldn’t take them in, but if one was sick or had a baby in arms, neither would I refuse them medicine or milk if I had it. IF I had it, and IF they didn’t assume they had a right to it. The attitude would determine my response.
I had occasion to respond to this question by one of my neighbors.
She noticed my stack of canned goods and made some comment about knowing where to come to when the store runs out.
My response was You will be welcomed IF you bring your own food. And I left it at that. I’m pretty sure she understood me.
My land is so hard to find that I still get lost sometimes driving out there. And, the lay of the land creates an optical illusion, if someone does find it they’d feel like they can see the whole valley, when they can’t see the person standing 10 feet away. I’m taking that into account with my house designs (still working on permits and such).
For now, though, I’m staying with my parents for a while. Unfortunately, my dad equates prepping with hoarding disorder, so there’s a limit to what I’ve been able to do. I think we’re good for 2 weeks of bugging-in, possibly 3, depending on the weather. But the price for that is listening to my dad gripe about “why do we have so much JUNK?????” every time he opens the pantry.
OK, I have a question….. We prepare to “defend” our property with guns and ammo. I’m for that, but I’ve been wondering lately, if I have to shoot someone… THEN – what do I do….? Call the authorities and have my guns and everything else I owned confiscated, because I WILL be detained… dig a deep hole and bury them, which is in he site of the “law” another BIG crime, or drag them to the road or field and let nature take it’s coarse, which again is another BIG crime that sets me up for detainment. Really, what do you do?? What are your plans, because I can’t settle on a good one.
Until I thought about the aftermath, I had made up my mind that I would protect myself and family without hesitation. But now, I need to overcome this hurtle in my mind to be back on track. In a life or death situation, hesitation = death.
I welcome all ideas!
My boyfriend and I just had this conversation a few weeks ago. We’re not so worried about strangers coming up from the city into the hills or even our neighbors for the reason others have mentioned in previous posts, but we are about some of our family members on both sides. These are family members that bring grief onto themselves even when times are good and cause trouble within the family at something as low-key as a BBQ. I shudder to think what they would be like during a crisis.
But since they’re family, they would also be the ones that we would have the hardest time emotionally to turn away. Plus, they KNOW what we have stocked here and our dogs would welcome them with wagging tails instead of racing them to the fenceline like they would a stranger.
We decided our response would depend on the particular family member combined with the severity of the emergency. For small, geographically localized emergencies in their area we’d be fine with putting them up for a few days and just call it an unplanned visit. For larger, long-term emergencies in their area, it would really start depending on which relative we were considering taking in. Some would not be welcome at all and the ones that would be welcomed better come prepared with their own food, tools, and ready to work.
If the disaster affected a large enough geographic area that we were struggling too, our primary responsibility is to our children, especially since two of our four still live at home. The only way we would take anyone in, family or not, is if we felt we had enough to supply ourselves, our children, their spouses, and their offspring first for however long we thought we would need to in order to recover from the emergency and it’s aftermath.
Our adult children follow our philosophy of being prepared, both with stocking provisions and knowing skills necessary to hunt and fish. If they weren’t able to stay put and ride it out where they are, we’re not worried about them coming here and sucking up resources without being able to contribute.
As far as strangers go, we contribute food to the local food closet regularly and I think that’s enough. What I have here is for my family. Times are hard for this Little Red Hen too.
MelTX – if things get to the point where you must shoot people to defend yourself, there won’t likely be any such “law” to worry much about. Depends a lot on where you are, of course.
The only legitimate law is the law of non-aggression. Do not initiate force. Don’t worry about the rest of it.
There are some considerations that all the great comments so far have not raised.
Keep in mind the incredible mobility that people have. There are two things to remember: First, a fully-fueled SUV or pickup has a range of 400 – 500 miles: a 5-gallon can of gas can add 75-100 miles. Now, how far are you from the nearest big city center like Denver or Albuquerque or Omaha or… Second, while people in smaller or well established communities tend to stick close, a LOT of people, including both Yuppies and third-generation welfare bums, have lived a lot of places and don’t have ties to “home.” Look at how many people have NOT gone back to New Orleans, compared to how many folks didn’t leave (or quickly returned) to Greenburg, KS.
Second, the problem with family members for those of us in rural areas are the ones who moved from here to the urban areas (or whose parents moved to the urban areas) years ago: they remember this as “home” and “refuge” but have often developed nasty big-city habits. Their “preparation” is likely to be enough fuel to get “home” figuring family (or old friends or classmates) can be counted on. And they are likely to bring a friend or “significant other” (or two) with them. And if their ties to home AREN’T around, they are likely to be the sort of “strangers” that rural people will have to deal with.
Nearer to urban areas you WILL have the stranger problem much bigger; especially in the 50-150 mile distance out, further if near an Interstate highway: some will be escaping the local authorities’ “fair-deal” and some will just be scared and bugging-out looking for someplace safe. But to them, anyone outside the suburbs may be nothing more than a vague idea of “local yokels” from old TV shows, and fair prey.
Size matters when it comes to rural law enforcement, and I wouldn’t write them off completely. A county like Corson (SD) with an elected sheriff and two deputies is unlikely to become the Warlord of Corson County, but the 20+ members of the BIA Police that occupy the reservation next door might behave as someone described. Unless they count noses and see that they are outgunned by about 100 to 1. Same thing with really small towns: a single marshal or constable, or even two or three, aren’t going to tree a typical western town. But a city or town with 5,000 or 10,000 people and a “professional force” of 15-20 officers (and a similar number of Sheriff’s officers and other town’s police) CAN be a threat. And when you are living in most of the West, DON’T forget the local federal agencies like BLM, USFS, NPS, and a few others: they are the ones arming up heavily and driving in SUVs with “Federal Police” on the tailgate. They’ll enlist other, usually-non-armed federal agencies like NRCS and ACS and such, and throw in with local agencies IF the local agencies are goons. And they are likely to team up with a few state agencies: more likely your local Game Warden than your local Extension Agent, maybe, or even the State Patrol or Highway Patrol, which are usually pretty thin on the ground.
All these things need to be kept in mind when planning – and don’t forget your neighbors! We all know that there is always at least one bad’un, but it will take neighbors to make it through together. Especially once the gangs get organized, like they did in Houston after fleeing from New Orleans.
Things, I suspect, are a bit worse in the East – but hey, when you live in places that have population densities of more than 10 or 20 per square mile, you made your own bed.
I’m kind enough to help strangers who need minor help in good times. I’ll help friends in somewhat worse situations. But if it seems at all like a question of survival … better me and mine than anyone else … err on the side of caution.
When TSHTF, it’s not wise to let on to any but those you like (and trust) that you have stuff they lack. The Public Fool System has trained multiple generations of commies — people who believe in making others share their goods with them, because they’re always prepared to share their misery with anyone, and because they have a surplus of unjustified self esteem.
It may be hard to conceal the fact that you have a stockpile of goodies when it’s apparent that you’re eating and others aren’t. You may have to go through the motions of scavenging just to make it appear you’re as bad off as everyone else.