… don’t worry.
I’m just mucking around, changing operating systems again.
My old laptop (running Linux Mint 11) headed toward slow death a month or two ago. I eBayed myself a newer ThinkPad and upgraded (or so I thought) to Mint 12.
I’ve been loving Linux Mint since version 8 or so, and I guess I’m not alone in that since it’s risen from nowhere to become one of the top Linuxes, if not the top Linux, for real people. Love its media friendliness!
But 11 had problems. Not the Mint team’s fault, but there were some new Ubuntu features they got stuck with (hidden slider bars that you can’t see until you’ve moused over them — and moused over them in just exactly the right way — was a very, very, very bad idea). (Okay, they’re scroll bars, as everybody in the comment section is reminding me very diplomatically. I don’t care what they’re called, as long as they work properly.)
Alas, although Mint 12 (and I presume the version of Ubuntu it’s based on) killed off the dreadful catch-us-if-you-can sliders, in other ways it, too, is not ready for prime time.
Again, it seems to be not the Mint team’s fault. Just as Mint is tethered to Ubuntu, it’s also tethered to Gnome, a heretofore marvelous GUI (aka desktop management system; with Linux, unlike Windows, there are several options for the user interface; sometimes users get a choice, sometimes developers make the decision). This time the Gnome team made some rocky decisions. Like the folks who thought hiding the slider bars was an “improvement,” they decided to get too clever for their or their users’ own good. They removed basic functionality (like actually being able to place tasks on the now-misnamed task bar) in favor of a bunch of jumpy jazz.
There’s also the problem of the OS briefly, from time-to-time, consuming all system resources so the computer turns into a snoozing tortoise. There’s a workaround for that. But I don’t want a workaround. I want an operating system that’s smooth and un-annoying right out of the box.
I’ve been using Mint 12 for about a month and am thoroughly irked by its quirks. I expect Mint 13, later this year, will once again be a primo, terrific Linux. They’re addressing every one of the main problems, and the underlying OS is really a great thing. But right now … just not ready for real-user prime time.
Fortunately, at the same time I ordered the Mint 12 DVD, I also bought Mandriva 2011.
Mandriva was the first Linux to aim for real-people friendliness, and was my long-time Linux love. Then they dug themselves a big hole for a few years (are you seeing a pattern here?) and the media-friendly Mint galloped past them.
Anyhow, that’s the long way of saying that I’m about to back up the system and all my data and replace Linux Mint 12 with Mandriva 2011.
If all goes well, you won’t even notice I’m gone. If it doesn’t … don’t worry. The feds probably haven’t carried me off. Yet. More likely I just hit some wrong button. Or several.
And please don’t take any of this as saying that Linux has gone bad for us ordinary, non-geek users. Thing is with Linux, if one version goes wrong, you can try another — for a free download, a $2 CD, or a $6 DVD. You can even try it via a “live” CD or DVD to make sure you like it before committing to an installation.
When Windows goes wrong, OTOH (ME or Vista, anyone?), you’re just plain stuck.
—–
Speaking of Windows, though: the new ThinkPad came with a new, hot version of M$ Windows, Windows 7 Ultimate, pre-installed. I must admit, it’s a pretty slick OS.
Since setting the new computer up to dual-boot Windows and Linux Mint, I haven’t used the former. But before installing Mint, I plinked around with Windows for a week or so and almost persuaded myself I could like it.
… Except, of course, for the conviction that I was being spied on (or potentially spied on) with every click of the mouse.
It’s really beautiful, though, and highly intuitive to use. I hate to say it but … “Nice job, Microsoft.”
I run Ubuntu but try to stay about 1 year behind or more so I can watch how the new features live or die before jumping. So I’m at 10.4LTS, it runs well and despite FireFox having a serious memory leak and eating the machine (slow turtle mode) forcing me to try Chromium (it’s ok).
Two things, Linux any flavor beats the tar our of winders. The other is I
run older hardware or slower and winders is a universal pig on them.
Eck!
Good luck and remember that no matter what trials in the short turn come about they will be sorted out and in the long run all will be fine.
Eck! Staying a little behind seems like a sane strategy. I should try it sometime. 😉
Whatever version of Ubuntu you leap to next, make sure it’s not the one with those &^%$#@! invisible sliders!
MJR, thanks for the good cheer. I never worry too much about messing up when I re-install Linux. I’ve done many super-smooth installs and a couple of really, really bad ones. But yes, in the end, you’re right. Always works out.
Windows 7 is worth a try. In my experience its actually pretty light on resources, and feels better (more responsive and consistent) than Ubuntu 11. Its UI has a similar ‘presence’ or ‘feel’ to iOS, very user centric even when a program is going all wrong.
And the best upgrade for a computer is a SSD drive… the difference can be astonishing.
Claire – I’m still a veritable noob when it comes to linux – but over the last few months I have been readying for a transition over to Mint. What I’ve been studying is various disc partitioning schemes meant to ease some of the uncertainties of upgrades and re-installs. Generally – the idea would be to put user data and other user specific files on partitions separate from the OS partition. I don’t have any suggestions as to specifics – but it sounds like that approach would ease some of your own uncertainty over the upcoming switch. Do you already do anything in regards to partition organisation that would help for reinstalls, etc. – and would you care to share any good ideas?
Plug Nickel Outfit — actually researching before a switch. Now there’s a concept. Seriously, studying partitioning schemes before moving to Linux or to a new Linux (something that terrifies most of us non-geeks) is amazing.
FWIW, yes, I always use separate partitions. Wouldn’t have it any other way. I keep all the user settings (in Linux, the /home directory) on a separate partition. Then I create another that I call /data and put all my documents and photos and other created or saved content in directories under that.
For those not familiar with what partitions do, this means that my data and user settings are protected against accidental erasure when I reinstall because they’re separate from the operating system. But (with some adjustments for a new operating system) they are present and ready for use by the new or updated Linux.
Now that I have a pretty big hard drive, I might also create a /storage or /backup partition to keep copies of old stuff on. (I would never use a hard-drive partition to keep my primary backups on, of course!)
When switching to a new Linux, I’ve found that if I just save a few carefully selected folders out of the old /home directory, I can get up and running pretty quickly with a new Linux (the ones I make a point to save are Desktop, .gnupg (for encryption), .mozilla, and .thunderbird.)
I guess I gave the impression I was worried about making the change. I’m really not. It’s always a hassle and sometimes takes some headbanging and a few hours to get my mail files back where I want them and my data accessible. But I’ve done this before and other than a few incidents where the OS caused me problems, the only times I’ve messed up were … well, when I got too darned cavalier about what I was doing and made the mess myself.
ILTim — SSD drive? Never even heard of that. I had to look it up:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Solid-state_drive
Claire, you aren’t the only person to have that reaction to Unity or Gnome 3. See: http://www.goodbyemicrosoft.net/news.php?item.676.2 and follow-up http://www.goodbyemicrosoft.net/news.php?item.678.2 I have XFCE on Debian 6 Stable on several computers, including my desktop, and will gradually move the rest to that combination.
@ Eck!: Debian Stable is a bit like your strategy of staying a year behind. By staying a year behind on Ubuntu, you have year old oopses. Some, but not all, get fixed in the intervening year. Debian Stable selects for stability. While it is often behind the rest of the world, sometimes you can get the testing version of something from Backports. Ubuntu is largely based on Debian Testing rather than Stable.
Samuel Adams — The thing I’m kicking myself for is that I knew there was a controversy over Gnome 3. But I didn’t investigate it, figuring it was just some obscure geek thing (you know, like the constant controversies in the gun world that only the most intense gunfolk really care about & everybody else just rolls their eyes over).
Even when I was poking around with the live DVD copy of Mint 12 before installing it, I didn’t check some things because it just never freaking dawned on me that people designing a user interface would remove basic, useful functionality (like the ability to put tasks on a taskbar) in order to “improve” (e.g. gussie up) their product.
Now I know better. Sigh.
At the moment, I’m online on an alternate computer. I’ve done one installation of Mandriva, which came up faulty (not mea culpa this time, I’m pretty darned sure). So I’m about to try again.
Hey, I have Eck! beat. I’m at Ubuntu 9.10. Yes, it’s been that long since I looked sideways at the next ubuntu and said, “Eh, maybe not.” Just haven’t figured out what’s next, and maybe Debian stable will be it. I briefly messed with the LXDE flavor of Mint11, and I didn’t hate it. Unfortunately, you still get some gnome apps, and there’s that ridiculous hidden scrollbar thing. Well, there’s an easy fix for it, so I’m not too concerned. FWIW, Xubuntu (or the XFCE Mint) seems the flavor of choice among those I know, none of whom like the new Gnome. Hey, even Linus Torvalds passed on Gnome3/Unity. I use Fvwm for my “desktop” so a lot of that stuff doesn’t affect me anyway — it’s just actual gnome apps that will be a pain until I get rid of the library that does the hidden scrollbars. I think that fix is posted right there on at the Mint site under “known issues” or some such heading.
If I were thinking of going the mandriva route, I’d probably look at http://www.mageia.org/ instead. See http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/01/07/0139223/shareholder-fight-threatens-mandriva-sa — but I prefer the debian package system to RPM.
Well, I’m logging in now from Mandriva. So far so … well, somewhat reasonably good. Mandriva with KDE4 is definitely a more “normal” experience than Mint with Gnome3. But they, too, have removed a few bits of functionality — for reasons that mystify me.
For instance, KDE4’s default file manager is Dolphin. According to Dolphin’s own website and Dolphin’s own user manual, it looks like a perfectly standard, familiar, user-friendly little file manager with quite a bit of configurability. Nifty zorch.
Unfortunately, Mandriva’s version of it doesn’t look like that. It’s missing its menu bar — so you can’t do basic things like copy, cut, paste, save, create new folders, etc. unless you already possess the secret decoder ring (e.g. know about CTRL-C,V,X, etc. or know where to right click). After farking around with the thing for about an hour and never finding any way to add the menu bar back in, I finally learned that Mandriva has — PROUDLY — removed the freaking menu bar for “a better, simpler environment” and enhanced ergonomics. (http://www.mandriva.com/en/linux/features/)
Arrrrrrrrgh!!!!!!!! Eeeeejits! You do not make things better by “simplifying” them to the point where ordinary users can’t figure out how to USE them.
Well, it’s still better than the system I just quit.
But tell me, Linuxians, which of these alternative file managers (http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/04/10-file-managers-for-linux.html) do you think would give the most straightforward and CALMEST experience to somebody who just wants to do the basic stuff one does with file managers.
Oh yeah. But on the good side I got Thunderbird, enigmail, and gnupg all ported over and set up with no fuss. For me, that’s usually the hard part. This went well.
“But tell me, Linuxians, which of these alternative file managers (http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/04/10-file-managers-for-linux.html) do you think would give the most straightforward and CALMEST experience to somebody who just wants to do the basic stuff one does with file managers.”
They’re all a little blurry, but Xfe looks the simplest to me. But it looks like Windows XP, which I’m most used to.
(BTW, I’m not a Linuxian yet. I finally found out what was wrong with my 3-yr-old Linux laptop — the system was bad. It had errors in its archive manager, and couldn’t install Mint or 10.04 upgrade of Ubuntu, even with Live CDs; finally got it to download some 2000 + packages after six hours waiting, then couldn’t install them. I’m about to give up on this Linux computer idea; slogging along for three years has been a waste of time of money.)
Pat, I’m really sorry you had such a bad experience trying Linux. It shouldn’t be that difficult.
OTOH, after seeing the recent versions of Mint and Mandriva, I have to say that at the moment, I wouldn’t recommend either of my favorite newbie Linuxes to any actual newbies. Both have become harder to use overall (even as some specific things like printer configuration or playing movies have become easier). It’s very disappointing, even without rare bad experiences like yours.
When I go to change the OS, I save all working files, passwords, bookmarks, etc. to a thumb drive. All that stuff is easy to import to the new install from there.
Ubuntu has been working great for me, with the latest upgrade more than adequate. Don’t like the “slider” scroll bar either, but have adapted. I use either right click or keyboard commands for most “cut and paste” type operations, but they are readily available under the “edit” icon in the tool bar.
That’s why there are thousands of linux versions… no one fits all needs. I’ve not tried Mint yet, but have heard good things about it. Might look at it myself. 🙂
MamaLiberty — Well, be sure not to try Mint for a while yet. I’m hoping that within a release or two they’ll have it back to its prime user-friendly status.
I agree that it’s generally easy to copy data and settings onto a thumb drive and use them in a new or upgraded Linux. But I’ve never found it to be glitch-free. There’s a very definite technique to getting mail files and mailboxes moved into Thunderbird (for me, no “import” feature has ever worked). And one of the tiny frustrations of making a move to a new Linux is that even when I keep the same username, the new system assumes that the “baddog” who created my files isn’t the same user as the “baddog” now logged in and therefore keeps all those old files under strict lock without a key.
The fix is simple — a single command line can change the ownership of an entire directory (from “baddog” to “baddog”) and every file in it. But newbies won’t know that and technophobes panic at the thought of typing command lines into a terminal. So this is one of those areas where even the most newbie-friendly Linuxes … aren’t.
Now that’s the truth! I shared folders to move files over the network from old computers to new and Ubuntu locks the incoming files. It wasn’t hard for me to learn to ‘chown’ but its the kind of obstacle that grinds everything to a halt for awhile. I’ve nearly given up on network shares altogether in my mixed windows environment after having loads of quirky issues with my fstab entries locking up the system. Talk about daunting for a newbie! When my laptop wouldn’t boot outside of my home I had to remember how to edit that file, from the command line with no gui, in order to disable shares and get to the desktop.
Switching to linux seems like 90% smooth sailing and 10% ZOMG!!-the-world-has-turned-inside-out-and-upside-down!!
Anybody know how I can add that fantastically useful little app XKill to the taskbar in Mandriva? Despite what this writer says (http://ostatic.com/blog/mandriva-2011-beta-2-the-return-of-xkill) XKill is very handy for dealing with misbehaving applications. But also contrary to what he says, it’s not in the taskbar’s “widget chooser” in Mandriva 2011.
XKill is installed on my system. I know where its executable is located (/usr/bin/xkill). But the app doesn’t appear in the GUI menus and unlike in the olden days before developers decided it was more important to be cute than easy to use I don’t see a function that will let me put it on the taskbar by inputting its path.
Help, Linuxians?
Hmmm, interesting. I’ve never had any problems getting my stuff from the thumb drive since I started using Ubuntu. When I went from windows to Puppy Linux at first, I could only retrieve my address book and bookmarks as text files… and that was a pain. My PGP keys were totally scrambled. So, when I first got Ubuntu, I used the terminal to locate the directory Firefox and Thunderbird looked to for the address and bookmark files… and copied them directly from the thumb drive to those directories. I had no problems with locking up either, and my stuff is encrypted.
Claire – thanks for passing along your thoughts on the partitioning.
As much a it seems a good idea to RTFM prior to taking the plunge into linux – it’s not a strategy without its own drawbacks. Generally it just reveals layers upon layers of greater complexity – which in turn require further research. Once I realised I could set up a dual boot system – well, then there was all that research…
I sure wish you folks would stop talking about the terminal – all right! I’ve gone from being a Luddite to being a slow-adapter, and I find myself wanting to turn around and march right back the other way all too often.
There’s a saying I picked up from McLuhan a couple decades ago that keeps popping up regularly as I go about my life – “If it works, it’s obsolete.” It just seems to me there’s so much truth to the sentiments at many levels. I am – however – learning to be more and more content in my obsolescence.
PNO — Oooooh, yeah. The psych-yourself-out-with-complexity factor. Familiar with that.
Which is one reason I tend to just plunge in and make a mess of things rather than doing nice, tidy advance research and planning. But LOL, where Linux is concerned (especially in these days of “live” CDs and DVDs), just jumping in doesn’t usually do much harm. And it creates great Learning Experiences.
And dual booting is easy. It’s one of those operations where you need to be careful not to hit the wrong button. But I’ll bet with the research you’ve done on partitioning, you’ll have no trouble. Mint and Mandriva have both made the process semi-automated.
Claire, you may know about this already but Mint has “Mint Debian” now. I’ve used both flavors, Mint based off Ubuntu and MInt based off Debian, and I must say, the Debian version ran much smoother compared to the Ubuntu version. While its true that Ubuntu is based off Debian, Ubuntu is typically updated “too” quickly…
Also, if you are up for trying something new, try Arch Linux. I’ve used it for years and haven’t looked at anything else…
-Simon
Simon — No, I didn’t know about Mint Debian. Choices, choices, choices …
I’ll definitely look into that (and Arch Linux and Mageia) a few months from now.
Right now I’m pretty happy with my switch back to Mandriva. Those couple of grumbles I posted in above comments were all the grumbles I had from the install. Mostly, things went smoothly and look good. I always loved Mandriva (especially its configuration utility) am enjoying being back.
Also, since it’s a tad harder to switch from an .rpm-based system to a .deb-based system (or vice versa), I’m not going to be in any hurry to go back to Mint unless either something terrible happens with Mandriva or something wonderful happens with Mint.