The dreaded election is one month away, and one way or another, whether we v*te or don’t, we’re all going to be affected by it.
I’ve edged toward the conclusion that the best possible outcome (short of an overwhelming write-in v*te for either Sweet Meteor O’ Death or None of the Above), is — God forgive me — a Hillary Clinton victory along with a Republican sweep of the House and Senate.
If this happens, the Evil Queen will be able to preen before her magic mirror all she likes, but her wishes won’t become anybody’s commands, except to the limited extent that she can enforce them via executive order.
Am I saying I believe the R’s have suddenly become so principled they’ll oppose her dangerous agendas (victim disarmament and single-payer healthcare in particular) on … erm, principle? Ha. Don’t make me laugh. I’m just saying that in the current climate of polarization I expect R’s to oppose Hillary on anything just because she’s Hillary. Spite may be the only thing standing between us and tyranny. But if so, I’ll take it.
Of course, the R’s probably won’t win the Senate. But even Hillary vs the House is something.
I came to this conclusion even before Trump’s latest scandal. He is not only a foul, loathsome human being (as is Hillary, of course). He is not only a chronic liar (as is Hillary, of course). But he’s an ignorant loon who wants to rule and will allow his ego and his … erm, big hands to run the show. She, on the other hand, is just your Basic Standard Corrupt Politician who is actually less interested in her political positions than in raking in whatever bux she can grab, which means she’d even sell out her own admittedly dangerous agenda for the right bribe.
We can understand a politician like that.
I’m not saying I’d v*te for Hillary. No, I’m an SMOD supporter all the way. I’m merely saying that Hillary in office with R’s thwarting her in Congress is the least dangerous scenario I can envision.
Oh, and if she dropped dead of any of her notorious natural causes a month after the election or was immediately impeached for corruption, even better.
In the long run, any outcome that increases cynicism about politicians and decreases belief in all-powerful, all-holy government will be a positive. But some of the paths to that end are too terrifying to contemplate.
Clearly your mileage on this issue may vary. So what do you see as the best possible outcome in November? Or maybe I should say the “least worse” outcome?
A North Korean n*clear attack on Washington, maybe?
I have been an avid supporter of partisan obstructionism and gridlock for the last sixteen years, for precisely the reasons you state. A non-veto-proof Repuglican majority in Congress with a Clintonov in the Great Doublewide is about as un-horrible an outcome as I can imagine- Clinton’s veto to block the loony-toonery of the American Taliban, and the loony-toon Congressthingies to block the Kommisarina.
The thing that worries me about this is that it implies a fairly close election, and a squeaker for either side- but especially a Clinton victory- has at this point the significant potential to result in violence. A blowout victory for either side has dangerous implications of its own, but a just-barely-there Clinton victory would send the Trumpites into a frenzy that could easily turn deadly. They’re so convinced of the rightness of their cause and the greatness of Herr Drumpf und der Nazional Socialistiche Amerikans Arbeiterspartei that they may well interpret anything short of a complete podium sweep (and accompanying “mandate” for violence against all the usual Untermenschen) as evidence of Bolshevist chicanery- which will then become their “mandate” for violence against all the usual Untermenschen. A significant portion of Trump’s base are visibly, openly, champing at the bit for a chance to “make amerika grate agin” by violence or threat thereof, and at this point I think they’ll take just about any excuse. These are Sturmabteilung at heart- brawlers, street fighters, and they -really- want an excuse to get busy breaking heads.
The Klintonovistsi, true to form, don’t go in for SA-style street fighting. They still want to break heads, but they want it done “official-like,” and preferably juuuust out of eyesight and earshot- close enough for people to be vaugely terrified, but far away and non-specific enough to preclude effective objection or resistance.
At this point the best we can hope for is for both groups to block one another and spend more energy on each other than on us. I’m still putting an ocean between them and my family. There’s a nasty whiff of 1935 in the air.
I can’t improve on your outcome.
“I’m still putting an ocean between them and my family. There’s a nasty whiff of 1935 in the air.”
Spot-on analysis, E. Garrett Perry — although IMHO, both sides have their brownshirts who’ll happily rampage in the streets and I actually think those on Clinton’s side are more dangerous (partly because they have the media on their side, while Trump’s don’t). I also detect that whiff of 1935, though I remain hopeful that Americans, unlike those “good Germans” will ultimately refuse to follow their noses in that direction.
I’ll be sorry to see you go, but I know your heart is in the Czech Republic already.
[…] Badness. […]
“both sides have their brownshirts who’ll happily rampage in the streets and I actually think those on Clinton’s side are more dangerous (partly because they have the media on their side, while Trump’s don’t)”
Agreed, with one proviso- the Klintonovisti street-action types seem to fall into either;
A: Social-Justice Pecksniffs- Fairly organised, but averse to actually participating in violence. They’re not averse to having Der Staat do their dirty work, of course, but they generally aren’t willing to get seriously violent. Privileged white college kids from nice suburbs burn cars over the firing of a child-molester-protecting football coach, but they’ll never get so worked up over politics.
B: Ferguson-style Urban Redistribution Specialists. They’re violent all right, but they couldn’t organise a line at McDonalds. They’re uncoordinated, emotionally driven, and prone to easily-distracted or -redirected overreaction. They also seem to think that their violence will not be met with, and so they don’t expect, meaningful resistance.
Trump’s SA, on the other hand, are at least as well-coordinated as the Type-A Pecksniffs, while being vastly more willing to both engage in and receive serious violence. They expect to be resisted, to take casualties, and so they’ll be a lot less likely to break and run when the actual shooting starts. And while some of the Type-B rioters are certainly capable of genocidist violence, most of them seem primarily interested in Free Shit. Many of the Trumpites openly subscribe to the “Nits make Lice” theory of social recalibration, and are being quite open about the “need” to eradicate- physically- every generation of The Enemy that they come across. They seem to be willing to spare Black children, but as far as they appear to be concerned, Muslim/Arab babies are fair game. This isn’t just Martin Lindstedt and his “prion disease” nonsense, they’re quoting bible verses about babies, heads, and stone walls.
As for the CR…my heart is in Prague. It always will be- Kafka was right. But I am saddened beyond my ability to describe that I should have had to go thousands of miles to find a place which functions kinda-sorta-maybe like American was supposed to. An American should not have to go someplace else to be free, nor to fall in love with a place. I will always be glad that Prague is there, and that I went, and that we are going. I will forever mourn for the loss of what should have been my natal shores. Although I suppose that, as an anarchist, I should not be attached to a polity.
Besides, this is the internet. I’m not really “going” anywhere, so far as that goes. It just means that all my smartass comments will be posted EST+6 again!
…and I’ll get to read my webcomics five hours before my American friends.
Allowing Hillary in office means that the mass importation of foreigners will not only continue, but will be increased many times. Those being imported do not vote in any manner shape or form in a conservative manner. They are also not encouraged to integrate, but rather are being encouraged to do exactly the opposite. They are, in other words, new Democrat voters.
Democratic politicians and their fellow travelers in the federal bureaucracy know this, why else do you think they are bringing in all the foreigners they can? They are not being shy about it, and are openly flouting the law to do so. Any objection to this is shouted down with accusations of racism.
Your children will curse your name, because you had a possible chance to stop it, and you decided that virtue signaling was more important than the future of your children. Immigration is the #1 issue facing the country, and only Trump has indicated any willingness to do anything about it. I will take _any_ chance of stemming the flow of illegals, no matter how distasteful his behavior.
If you are not voting Trump, you are voting for political and national suicide.
What a bad joke. The Republicans did such a wonderful job keeping Obama from ruining the country, Hillary wont stand a chance getting anything done with a Republican House and Senate. I will take my chances with Trump and you can keep your daydream of an obstructionist Republican sellout traitor party with a Democrat packed Supreme Court in La La Land.
Dream on Claire. There is no law anymore…Republicans didn’t obstruct Obama, and they won’t obstruct Hillary. Bill the pedophile’s wife has said she wants to register and ban firearms, and is fine with a war with Russia and China. Having children, my top priorities are no nuclear war, and no civil war…..
There is No Bi-partisan obstructionism in DC. Hilarity will rule with more of an iron hand than Obamy. This moral equivalency between Trump and the Bushie-Hilarity will end any pretense of a constitution and usher in complete tyranny.
Such aloofness is a ProgreSSive disease in itself. Trump 2016 or forgetaboutit
Cthulhu for Potus. Why v*te for the lesser evil?
“both sides have their brownshirts who’ll happily rampage in the streets” I am not so sure about this statement a- Where is the evidence that there are armies of Trump supporters ready to commit mayhem, as has already been seen by anti-Trump supporters and the masses paid rioters of the anti-white, anti-police ilk?
My wife is Jewish. I am part Black. If you think I’m going to vote for that Fascistic Fuckhead and empower his brownshirtd to come after my wife, my daughter, and my Muslim friends you are out of your mind. All that aside, I believe in the Judgement of the Lord, and in the Last Day. I will not stand before the judgement-seat of God and attempt to explain why I endorsed the murder of my Black, Muslim, and LGBT neighbors, nor the treatment of my female neighbors which Trump and his myrmidons seem to regard as their droight de seigneur. Trump and his ilk will be just as tyrannical as Hillary, they just happen to be aimed at Other People for the moment. Or is mass-murder acceptable so long as “the right people” are the ones getting killed? Was the Holocaust wrong because it’s wrong to murder even one person (leave alone 12,000,000 of them), or was the Holocaust wrong because they didn’t murder the -correct- 12M people?
“Where is the evidence that there are armies of Trump supporters ready to commit mayhem,”
All over this place called The Internet. Or did you think that the (((echo))) was so that people could identify Jews in order to buy them cookies? Spend a few minutes alone with a few Trumpites who think you agree with them sometime, you’ll have all the evidence you need. “Kill the Muzrats who won’t leave, kill all the Niggers who won’t get in line, bash the Queers into Men, lock up the Trannies, and hang every liberal you can find.” seems to be their order of businesz.
Unfortunately, I do not see the R’s standing up to the hildebeast. They will not be able to withstand the ridicule in the lame stream media for doing so. They will roll over like a puppy waiting for someone to rub their belly and say ,” Good boy!”.
Oh- And don’t forget “Shoot anybody who won’t STAND FOR THE SACRED SONG AND SALUTE THE SACRED CLOTH AND BOW DOWN BEFORE ALL POLICE AND SOLDIERS!! Patriotism is MANDATORY here in the FREEST PLACE THAT EXISTS OR EVER HAS OR WILL EXIST.”
A high-school principal suggested this over the PA at a footbal game recently- the crowd went nuts.
Perry is delusional. There are No Trump brownshirsts! We need community militias to resist the ProgreSSive Hilarity Feral gov and can’t get organized. George Soros knows how to organize….pay everyone a stipend then move them around the country as needed to create hot spots. Trump doesn’t do this, but his supporters are physically attacked.
Czech Republic…wasn’t that part of the former Yugoslavia? Divided along Ethnic lines from what I remember. Black and Jewish should do well when Europe ignites under the coming Islamist “Tet Offensive”. but then each to their own views.
Roland– Sadly, you’re probably right. Plus they’d hate to erode FedGov power in some way, just for when -they- get back into the Great White Doublewide.
“All over this place called The Internet. Or did you think that the (((echo))) was so that people could identify Jews in order to buy them cookies? Spend a few minutes alone with a few Trumpites who think you agree with them sometime, you’ll have all the evidence you need. “Kill the Muzrats who won’t leave, kill all the Niggers who won’t get in line, bash the Queers into Men, lock up the Trannies, and hang every liberal you can find.” seems to be their order of businesz.”
So where’s the downside?
“Czech Republic…wasn’t that part of the former Yugoslavia? Divided along Ethnic lines from what I remember.”
Nope. Formerly Czechoslovakia. Divided amicably into the Czech and Slovak Republics in 1993. Bohemians and Moravians mostly stayed in CZ, Slovaks and Silesians in the SR.
“Europe ignites under the coming Islamist “Tet Offensive”. ”
No such thing. Been there (recently) , seen that. There are a small number of genuine Bad Guys and a somewhat larger number of garden-variety petty criminals, but mostly just a bunch of very scared people who are running for their lives. You are being lied to for someone else’s gain. This is the same conspiracist nonsense that was used to justify violence against Jews in Germany, the Irish in the US, and just-about-everybody in the Balkans. You’re falling for an old, old trick.
Edited to elaborate: There is a legitimate discussion to be had on the wisdom and practicality of permitting people from one of the most illiberal cultural complexes on the planet- specifically Arabs- to settle in large numbers within a socially liberal system. But that is hardly the same as alleging a grand pan-Islamic consipracy for a “Tet offensive.”
I’m going to assume for the moment that Oldfart’s post immediately above is sarcastic.
If it actually represents the views of a Trumpist, then E. Garrett Perry’s point has been vividly made.
To remind everybody: Dispute the issues all you want, but any racism or any name-calling will get your comments trashed and/or yourself banned, depending on the severity of the offense.
One huge problem with your decision.
The supreme court.
A clinton victory dooms us to decades more of bad court decisions or worse.
I am more than willing to take a chance on Trump for that reason alone.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not expect anything miraculous to happen if Trump is elected but at least we won’t be fighting the scotus too. That might give us a little more time for the American people to complete their wakeup from their freedom and liberty destroying silence and slumber.
Comrade Perry,
You’re also falling for an old, old trick,. The current Feral Gov goons are not made up of inhabitants of trailer parks. they are well paid, well fed DC suburbanites living off the fatted calf of the feral debt.
These Feral Gov goons will be hunting the “deplorables’ and “bitter clingers” as already targeted by the Obamy-Hilarity progreSSive propaganda.
Enjoy Europe, you deserve it!. Muslims were such fantastic neighbors in Mecca and Medina to the Christians and Jews.and everywhere else the muslims establish their hegemony.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9059/majid-oukacha
Oh for fuck’s own sake…I’m not even going to dignify that link or your comments about Europe and Muslims.
You’re absolutely right about the identity of those Fed goons. But as you (perhaps inadvertently) point out, these are well-paid suburbanites. Above all else, they will preserve that status- they will do whatever they are told by whomever tells them to do it. Who exactly is it that you think Trump and his minions will use to “restore Lawn Order” when they win? Those same well-paid suburbanites! They’re the ultimate “Just Followink Orders” crowd, just like their friends in the media. They’ll do whatever they’re told, in the main. Some of the more ethical ones may try to stay and Svejk it out, and a certain number may resign in protest, but most will simply work to destroy whomever they’re pointed at. If the Clintonschina and the Bu’ushist Years didn’t teach you that, I respectfully submit that you weren’t paying attention.
I’ll take my chances with Trump since the Media Feral Gov Complex and Hilarity-Bushies are All against him. If he fails to abide by the constitution then hopefully there will be pushback that has not occurred with The Obamy-Clintonista crime family.
Once again, enjoy Europe.
Mars it is then.
I’m not an American. Looking in from the outside at the train wreak your once great country has become makes me sad. Here we are at a turning point in history. Evil will win no matter who takes the oval office and starting this November the world will be in for a very rough ride.
A Hillary Clinton victory along with a Republican sweep of the House and Senate might be a good thing, however I think this would just stall the inevitable. Whether it’s this election with a Trump win or the next when a Trump clone steps up, most of the paving stones on the road to hell have been laid. America is well along the road to becoming a fascist state. I admit I had a small glimmer of hope with Gary Johnson but now that his running mate has jumped ship, Johnson is finished.
These days one of the things which lets me get some sleep at night is the hope I’m wrong in my assessment. Heinlein called it right when he spoke of our time being “the crazy years.”
http://www.anesi.com/Fascism-TheUltimateDefinition.htm
In certain respects, the choice of President won’t make much difference. Economically, we’re utterly screwed no matter what. We are doomed to an economic collapse of Biblical proportions no matter who is President. We are also horrendously vulnerable to an EMP attack, although I suspect that a Trump administration might correct that in time.
What nobody is discussing is who controls the NSA files. Y’know, the detailed compilation of every single peccadillo and felony committed by every single one of us for the last 15 years. Those files have functionally eliminated the old Constitutional idea of separation of powers.
Control of the NSA files has given control of the Legislative branch and the Judicial branch to Soetero. This is one reason why the Republican House has been and will continue to be unable to control the present inhabitant of the Spite House. Whoever controls the NSA files controls ALL of the government.
I am deeply concerned about the potential of Trump holding the reins of the NSA, but the idea of further consolidating the hold of the Muslim Brotherhood on the Executive with the Hildabeast as figurehead is utterly terrorizing. We dare not allow this to happen. Look at the damage done so far. Do we want more of that?
On that topic, Islam is utterly incompatible with Western Civilization; it has been at war with the West for 1400 years. Attempts to gloss this over are, at best, willful ignorance.
Trump is not anything close to my ideal of a President. If the Libertarian Party had nominated a Libertarian ticket, I’d have considered voting for it. As it stands, having Hillary control the government is unthinkable. I do not know how bad a Trump presidency will be, but I do know what a Hillary presidency will be like. I will vote for Trump this fall, warts and all, simply in self-defense.
” Heinlein called it right when he spoke of our time being “the crazy years.” ”
Boy did he ever. I’ve been wondering for a decade if the man wasn’t a legitimate Prophet, especially with regards to The Crazy Years. I’m really hoping that we aren’t about to end up with Nehemiah Scudder. One of the greatest downsides of a Clinton victory is this– In four (or God forbid eight) years, the Repugs will be so whipped-up that they’ll run an overt Fascist or violent religious fanatic. Trump still speaks in codes and signals, he’s fairly *wink, wink, nod, nod* with his base. If Clinton wins, the next Hitlerite or Scudderist that they run will be right out in the open. And the rest of the Electorate will be so fed up with the Dems that they’ll -elect- that monster.
Geez people, you’re all delusional. The West is toast. We’ve made sure of that ourselves. Voting will not save us even though we all must vote…not voting will only get us there sooner. Fleeing to another Western country won’t save you. They will only blame you, the foreigner, for their own self-inflicted failures. The line in the sand was crossed decades ago. The human world is spiraling toward a great culling. A human correction, if you will. And it cannot be stopped. No one will be immune, not even the elites…especially the elites. I live in a country where the elites claim “moral authority” to justify their wars to “democratize” or “nation build” nations that despise us. We drone their women, their children, their men, young and old, then we bring the survivors amongst ourselves because we are moral. The stark reality is the world will be Fallujah, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq……If are not building a redoubt, forming a tribe, arming a community and your minds….prepping….then you are going to die.
” I’m just saying that in the current climate of polarization I expect R’s to oppose Hillary on anything just because she’s Hillary.”
I don’t recall the “R’s” having seriously opposed Obama on anything and a Hillary POTUS would simply be a continuation of Obama’s policies
” She, on the other hand, is just your Basic Standard Corrupt Politician…”
No, she outclasses that category of politician in every way to include a trail of suspicious dead bodies all the way back to Mena Arkansas along with connections to the Dixie Mob and doubtless, she has the dirt on a lot of pols in Washington. Consider the fact that Comey did not dare to press charges against her despite the fact that he made her guilt public; this tells me that there will be NO resistance to her will once she is in office. She is the reason that Putin appears to be seriously preparing for a possible war with the USA.
Immigration, future Supreme Court nominees, gun control. The choice seems clear to me.
Some Republicans are condemning Trump’s 11 year old gutter talk and jumping ship, but as of yet, haven’t heard a peep from the same re: Clinton’s open borders, globalist treason and blatant advocacy of lying deception in secret paid speeches. If they don’t denounce her as an outright traitor, then they are ‘with her”.
I’m constantly amazed by this fear of Christian totalitarianism. These guys can’t unite long enough to put up a nativity scene in the town square, or even in front of their own churches for fear of offending someone, and you fear a Nehemiah Scudder scenario?
Could Trump motivate a set of brownshirts? Possible, I suppose, but when have you ever heard of centrist brownshirts?
“What do we want?”
“Slightly less authoritarian socialism!”
“When do we want it?”
“Now!”
I think you may have it backwards. Trump has little or no support in DC— the (D)’s are absolutely, apoplectically, foaming-at-the-mouth opposed to him, the (R)’s— the Democrat apologist/ appeasement party—despise him, and the media are firmly, unabashedly in the tank for the (D)’s.
I believe the best chance for gridlock is a Trump presidency.
at the end of the day only one thing matters in the election. limiting immigration . if that doesn’t happen , then Colorado, florida , ohio , and probably texas will have enough imported voters to make them impossible for any republican . to win. NO republican can possibly win without at least three of them . that will be the end of any possibility of electing a republican president.
secondly , I defy you to show me a single time the GOP house of senate stopped a Obama action. . they will not stop Hillary either..
the mainstream media only works in the emotional relm . they ridicule and mock and deride . It works very well.
how can you still support the same party who has let your vote be nullified by illegal immigrants ? The GOP has done nothing to stop it . Hell George W proposed amnesty and call republicans who didn’t support it racists.
There is always this option:
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/heres-what-happens-if-donald-trump-drops-out-of-presidential-race/
Re his latest grotesque offense, I don’t believe Trump would voluntarily drop out of the race even if he got caught on video shtupping a sixteen-year-old while she screamed for help. But with Pence so suddenly popular since the VP debates, the R-party, if it had the will, could force Trump out and create a Pence-and-Somebody-Else ticket. Complicated. But possible.
“What do we want?”
“Slightly less authoritarian socialism!”
“When do we want it?”
“Now!”
Thank you for the moment of levity.
I expect R’s to oppose Hillary on anything just because she’s Hillary.
Given what I hear from the red side of the aisle, that’s also a reason to vote for Trump. “If The Donald wants it, I’ma votin agin it!”
now that his running mate has jumped ship, Johnson is finished.
IMHO Weld abandoning the Libertarian ticket would personally make voting for Johnson more attractive, not less.
But it’s the MSM that keeps throwing out that line, so I’m not banking on it yet.
We live in interesting times. I’d love to hear the small talk around the POTUS Protection Detail’s break room.
“There are No Trump brownshirsts!”
Judging by a few of the pro-Trump comments I’ve had to send to the trash heap because they were so filled with loathing for Jews and blacks, if there are no Trump brownshirts now, there are likely to be plenty of volunteers for the SA if Trump becomes president.
I despise Hillary. But some of what I’ve seen in the dark recesses of the unapproved corners of this comment thread makes me realize that Trump will bring out the worst in us. Against Hillary, we will fight the righteous fight. For Trump … there’s no telling what some of us will do.
I am no Trump fan, but I find it very odd that so many people are getting so worked up over some bad gutter talk from over 10 years ago. These same people will excuse Bill’s rapes, sexual assaults, and Hillarys trying to destroy the lives of these women to cover up for him.
What is more important WORDS OR ACTIONS?
@George October 8, 2016 12:15 pm:
Agree on both points. Trump might be a warmongering totalitarian sociopath. About Hillary, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever.
An interesting dissident view with regard to SCOTUS:
“The Progressives’ agenda has been dominant ever since FDR’s Court-packing scheme, which went nowhere in Congress – his only major defeat – but which scared the Court so much that it began validating all of his programs from then on. . . . No matter who wins in November, the Supreme Court will only be marginally better or worse in four years.”
RTWT.
Claire:
It’s been said, correctly I fear, that there is no voting our way out of this mess.
What is coming has the potential to be ugly beyond our conception of what ugly can be, and while I see some restraint at present from the neocons and the repubs, the Dems are showing less all the time, and the overall tone is getting more and more vicious. We are past the rule of law, and are getting closer and closer to the rule of fang and claw. The Jacksonian middle class has had enough of being screwed by the nomenklatura, exemplified by soetero and clinton.
I see no point in surrendering the control of the US Government apparat to the leftists and Islamists. I mentioned the NSA files before; they are a huge part of the reason that we simply cannot afford a Hillary presidency. The degree of election fraud alone committed by the Democratic party is staggering, not to mention the hiring of thugs to disrupt Trump rallies, and I could cite similar egregious violations of the ROL for hours.
Choosing between Trump and Hillary is like choosing between being infected by a novel flu virus, which might well kill you and will certainly make you miserable for an extended period, and getting infected with an airborne clade of Ebola. which is 70% likely to kill you and 100% likely to completely screw up your life forever.
“Judging by a few of the pro-Trump comments I’ve had to send to the trash heap because they were so filled with loathing for Jews and blacks, if there are no Trump brownshirts now, there are likely to be plenty of volunteers for the SA if Trump becomes president.
I despise Hillary. But some of what I’ve seen in the dark recesses of the unapproved corners of this comment thread makes me realize that Trump will bring out the worst in us. Against Hillary, we will fight the righteous fight. For Trump … there’s no telling what some of us will do.”
One can easily tell what humans will do if the wrong philosophy is applied, and it is not going to be limited to Trump’s supporters. Hillary is already bringing out the worst in her supporters, not to mention her preferred method of dealing with opponents- “Can’t we just drone this guy?” Probably one of the best recent examples is the siege of Sarajevo, and the “fry the Brain” sniper wars that were carried out by both sides. If the left retains power, we’ll see the worst of human actions play out.
Oh, Historian — I know we can’t v*te ourselves out of this. I’ve known that for a long time, long before it came to this awful pass.
As to which side holds the keys to the state secrets or has their hand on the big red button, I don’t see a lot of difference. As I’ve said before, some days I wake up thinking it would be best for Trump to win, other days Hillary. But really, either would be a disaster.
As to what I wrote about Trumpist brownshirts though: Of course I’m well aware that Hillary’s side is also bringing out the worst in its supporters. Both sides are encouraging the worst in human nature. When I wrote of the Trump brownshirts, I was merely answering someone who claimed they don’t exist.
That said, however, one reason I dread Trump brownshirts more than Clinton brownshirts is that none of the pecksniffs on college campuses were ever my friends, none of the angry black people burning down their own neighborhoods or demanding “reparations” for crimes committed 200 years ago were ever either friends or potential allies. But some of the people who are now letting their worst selves emerge on behalf of Trump are or were or could have been.
I’m not talking here about any old Trump v*ters. I’ve got friends who are going to v*te for him. I’ve got friends v*ting for Hillary. I’ve got friends v*ting for SMOD and friends who’d rather be bitten to death by rabid squirrels than ever enter a v*ting booth. I’m talking about people for whom it’s suddenly, “Trump or else.” People for whom it’s “Trump because he’ll stop those people” — whichever group the speaker hates or fears the most. People for whom it’s “Trump or you’re my enemy.”
I’ve mentioned before that I lost a good friend on 9/11, not to the terrorists, but to jingoism. Overnight she went from being a supposed libertarian who judged people solely on their individual merits to a hysterical nativist who wanted all foreigners (ALL foreigners) to be forced to wear special marks on their clothing and wanted all Arabs (or all Muslims; they’re not the same but she was always fuzzy on that detail) deported from the U.S., with only a few allowed back in if they could prove their good intentions.
Trump and Hillary are both the same kind of dividers. They both foster grudges and hostilities. But Trump is fostering them among people I know and care about.
BTW, please try to keep the discussion to particular outcomes of the presidential election.
If I get many more comments dedicated to discussing how terrible the racial, religious, or ethnic group of your choice is, I’m going to close the thread.
(I’m no great cheering fan of Islam or Islamic culture myself, as I’ve said before — and taken heat for saying. But all the virulence that’s being poured out toward various groups here (in the comments I’m not approving) is toxic. I’m not going to approve any predominantly anti-some-ethnic-or-cultural-group posts, period. No matter which group you hate or why you hate them. Not even if I agree with some of your points. Stick to the impact of the election.)
Hoping the 20th amendment and 1947 law of succession take effect at some point in time.
Trump must “Get Out” of the race over crude remarks, but Hilarity? Never!!!!
This is as good a Communist Op as any ever! and Claire, your moral equivalency is disappointing to say the least.
To accede to your wishes as this is your forum. The Bankster Oligarchs will collapse the economy on a President Trump’s head. So like good Quislings we should vote for Hilarity to postpone the inevitable economic collapse a few years more, when it will be even worse, as if that is even possible.
As a last note, I prefer Trump’s non-existent Brown Shirts to Hilarity’s Existing Soros Paid Brown Shirts that have already been primed to get US, the “Deplorables” and “Bitter Clingers”.
With Frau Hilarity and her GF,s Huma and Merkel, it’s not like you have to read the tea leaves to see what they desire.
I can’t bring myself to care either way.
That being said, I hope Trump wins ONLY because I want to believe it was possible for Scott Adams to predict the outcome from way back; as he has been explaining the persuasion techniques used by Trump during the entire campaign, and explaining how things were going to go before it looked possible. I want to believe that such a thing is possible, even if I can’t do it. (Funny, though, how I am getting better at seeing persuasion techniques being used, whoever is doing it.)
That, and because I’ve hated Hillary since decades before I ever heard of Trump. It’s an impossible habit to break, and not worth the effort.
They are fighting for leadership of a club I don’t belong to, and don’t care to join. Y’all have fun, though.
“So like good Quislings we should vote for Hilarity to postpone the inevitable economic collapse a few years more, when it will be even worse, as if that is even possible.”
You said that, not me. On the contrary I said I would never v*te for the Hilldebeast.
I do consider Trump and Hillary to be morally equivalent. Different strains of big-government liberals, to be sure. Different temperaments, different approaches. But both big-government liberals.
The “r’s” will not offer any pushback and they will give her everything she wants.
E, Garrett Parry brings up Heinlein’s Scudder, and it’s an important point to consider, because if anyone in this race fits that description, It’s Veep-to-be Mike Pence (“Veep” because he finds the very word “Vice” to be loathsome. I could almost consider voting for Trump as an agent of chaos were it not for the extremist waiting in the wings.
I wish the Libertarians were running actual libertarian candidates; Johnson is such a flake that he makes Jill Stein look, well, like less of a wacko. At this point I’m voting for Vermin Supreme–he seems the least dangerous of any of them.
And counting on Republicans to counter Clinton is a fantasy, given how many are tacitly (and openly) supporting her against Trump. The best we can hope for is a Trump presidency with a Congress openly regarding him with contempt.
“BTW, please try to keep the discussion to particular outcomes of the presidential election.”
Whichever of the anointed Nomenklatura ‘wins’, we the people are screwed!
Nobody can avoid the economic crash that is coming.
” I do consider Trump and Hillary to be morally equivalent. Different strains of big-government liberals, to be sure. Different temperaments, different approaches. But both big-government liberals.”
I disagree. The difference between the Donald and the Hildabeast is more than a difference in degree, but a difference in kind.
https://pjmedia.com/blog/america-you-have-no-right-to-judge-donald-trump/
” I find this reaction to Trump’s private conversation rather ironic. It’s ironic coming from a secular culture that long ago declared objective morality dead. It’s ironic coming from politicos and media bottom-feeders who defended the abusive and disgusting behavior of Bill Clinton, not when he was a private citizen but when he was a sitting president.
It’s ironic coming from a Republican political elite that has told its religious base that social and moral issues don’t matter in politics. “It’s all about the economy, stupid. Leave your morals in the church but don’t voice them in the public square.”
The creep of moral relativism in America has been steady for many decades, increasing in speed to the point that the “slouching toward Gomorrah” has become a sprint. The notion that there is objective truth or absolute morality has been universally panned to the point that everything is tolerated except standards of right and wrong. “Everyone decides for himself what is right, especially when it comes to sex” is the mantra of today’s culture.
For years, Christians in particular have been attacked and silenced as they’ve tried to challenge the immorality that is pervasive in today’s society. When they tell people casual sex is wrong, they get the inevitable, “You have no right to tell me what I can or can’t do.” If they oppose sexual immorality in any form, including adultery, they’re maligned as sanctimonious puritans by lovers of libertinism.
How ironic, then, that a culture which rejects moral standards has suddenly become so pure and pristine, sitting in judgment of someone they deem too immoral to become president because of something he said in private. As a logical person, I have to ask these paragons of newly found virtue where this standard by which they’ve judged Trump is found.”
Like Glenn likes to say, read the whole thing.
Everyone tut-tutting Trump about his sexual proclivities can just stuff it, AFAIAC. Besides, there are more important issues at stake. Like, say, whether the US goes to war with Russia, like Hillary is rarin’ to do. Or whether the US continues to import the seeds of our own destruction in the form of millions of illegal immigrants.
Claire, I’m glad to read your stuff online, rather than waiting to read SWAT. I hope your site is doing well.
A return to happier times, like at the wedding. Or maybe another friendly round of golf. People get so riled up over the most trivial things.
Trump has said that he would discuss issues with Putin; would try to work with him. Hillary has called Putin another Hitler. Which do you think would be more likely to avoid a war?
Hillary’s history is that of agreement with the NeoCon warhawks. “We came, we saw, he died” is not the style of a peace-loving person. The Wolfowitz Doctrine does not favor any sort of peaceful world.
My view is that if you like dead bodies and refugees, along with profitability for the war-toy boys, vote for Hillary. If you prefer a greater likelihood of less warfare, odds are that Trump should be the choice.
“Everyone decides for himself what is right, especially when it comes to sex” is the mantra of today’s culture.
If only.
Instead, for instance, we have liberals who believe that homosexuality is moral and everybody damn well agree or be sued, and conservatives who believe that homosexuality is immoral and should be against the law.
Morality isn’t about doing the right thing because you’re afraid of the law, it’s about choosing</b to do the right thing because you believe it’s right.
As for the Scudder scenario, while it’s not impossible I find it highly unlikely.
A Christian takeover requires at least a large Christian minority, and that isn’t what we actually have in the U.S. Considering all the different denominations, what we actually have is a collection of minorities.
The largest Christian church is Catholicism, about one in five Americans. The top five (Wikipedia):
The Catholic Church, 68,202,492 members
The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,136,044 members
The United Methodist Church, 7,679,850 members
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,157,238 members
The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members
That totals about one in three Americans. Now picture them getting together to elect a Congress, then deciding on a definition of “Christian morality.”
And it’s really worse than that. Many of the Christian denominations have liberal/conservative fault lines. The Methodists are about as inclusive as churches get, and the way things are heading thy could easily find themselves in a theological food fight over the aforementioned homosexuality. As in the denomination splitting and shedding a double-digit percentage of its members.
That isn’t to say that we won’t get a dictator on a white horse. It could happen on either side. But Christianity won’t be the real cause.
You want another reason to vote for Trump and not for Hillary (directly or not)?
Tim Kaine. A big fan of single-payer (NHS death panels, anyone?), more immigration and citizenship for illegals already here, universal pre-kindergarten (train ’em into good subjects early), believes in Global Warming and all the gov’t control necessary to halt it, received an F from the NRA and has introduced many gun-control bills, and has a perfect score from Planned Parenthood.
Have you watched the videos of Hillary trying to climb (or even just descend) more than 2 stairs, much less her complete collapse at 9/11? There’s a better than 50/50 chance of her not completing a term.
Trump is 70, so there’s also a distinct -but much less- chance of him dying in the next 4 years, but Pence is not a left-wing pied piper to the republic.
What Nicki says:
https://thelibertyzone.us/2016/10/08/a-couple-of-non-partisan-election-thoughts/
(And of course Clinton belongs in prison, too.)
I find it interesting that the unspoken implied subtext to the randy Trump tape is: women decide. The woman he pursued turned him down. The women who he groped made themselves available. His approach to women is respectful of their power to decide what is appropriate for them. His conclusion is that some women (many?) are drawn to celebrity and success, and they find value in the attention they receive, sexual or otherwise. There have been no accusations of force or threat, so there can only be an assumption of willingness from all parties concerned. When there was unwillingness, no sexual activity took place. He’s a cad, but he’s a respectful cad. The power to decide always remained with the woman.
Contrast that with Bill Clinton’s rapes, and Hillary’s enabling of the rapes. No respect for women to be found there.
Trump doesn’t deserve to be President, but not because of his attitude toward women. Hillary doesn’t deserve to be President precisely because of hers.
Perhaps a lot of people are too wrapped up in the two side election to notice that there is not a true majority of anything or anyone (if that was a good thing anyway). The trends in the political world over the last two centuries, at least, seem to demonstrate ever greater fracturing and infighting of those who would control the rest of us. And control, of people and their property, is the central core of politics – always has been. If anyone thinks that supposed positions or decisions these people claim or make represents ANYTHING that will truly help people, bring any sort of peace, or benefit anyone but the politicians and their supporters – they are fooling themselves.
And the fragmentation of the would be controllers, at every level, will continue no matter who occupies the Mordor “doublewide” for the next four years. (Love that mental image) And those being controlled (even if they think they belong in the controller ranks) will continue to be fragmented as well.
Eventually, I suspect that there will only be small groups who choose to work in concert, and all with very different ideals, goals and methods. When the constructs of the controllers finally begin to break down, there will be war among at least some of those factions. I don’t see any way at all to avoid it. It won’t be pretty, and there will probably be plenty of wrong done on all sides.
What happens then is anyone’s guess. The election in 2016 simply doesn’t seem to me to have anything to do with it… except perhaps to push the time line up a bit. Good luck, everyone.
“I find it interesting that the unspoken implied subtext to the randy Trump tape is: women decide. The woman he pursued turned him down. The women who he groped made themselves available. His approach to women is respectful of their power to decide what is appropriate for them.”
Ron Johnson — I can tell you (as a person who was more than once, when I was young and younger, unwillingly groped, and worse, by an older and more powerful man) that once someone has suddenly grabbed you by the crotch or stuck his tongue in your mouth, you don’t have much “choice.” Your body and your ownership of it have already been violated — and the man knows that perfectly well because he intends to take ownerhip.
Yes, you can react in various ways, from trying to persuade him to keep his hands off, to shoving him away, to bursting into tears, to telling him you have AIDS, to kicking him in the crotch. But until you actually DO kick him in the crotch, he’ll interpret every other action on your part as nothing but coy teasing, an invitation to keep trying, a challenge to his manhood.
Will such men stop eventually? Usually. But believe me — and any other woman who’s been there — those situations are rarely ever a matter of we women “making ourselves available.” The kind of men who do such things just see us as playthings and see themselves as so desirable they imagine every woman should just fall before them. They consider it their right to manhandle our bodies regardless of our wishes. It requires real strength and persistence, at a moment of horrendous emotional and physical duress, to drive such predators off. Sometimes they can’t be driven off.
Of course, a minority of women — like the career-seekers Bill Cosby preyed on — do put themselves into harm’s way because they hope (sometimes innocently, sometimes avariciously) for something in return. But even they don’t choose to be crudely groped, drugged, or otherwise mauled.
The last time, and worst, time such a thing happened to me (when a rich one-time client had me and a video crew in an isolated location where he was perceived as a local VIP) was more than two decades ago. I was able, after days of constant resistance, to save myself from the worst the man had in mind. But I can’t even count the number of times and ways I was forced to resist a man who just kept coming at me, each time in some more pervy, demeaning, and sometimes public way. I still get the creeps down deep in my gut when that week from hell crosses my mind.
Trump may have been blatting idle locker-room banter, in which case his infamous remarks just display, once again, his power-tripping ego and his lack of character and his unfitness for power. No big surprise. But if he actually DID the things he claimed in that tape, then he committed sexual assault. Just like Bill Clinton and just as despicably. In that case, he (and Billy Boy) belongs in jail.
I was just reading Patricia Neill’s essay, “Inbred Elites” at Wolfe’s Lodge, https://billstclair.com/lodge/N_InbredElites.shtml
and was agreeing fine until the end:
“If you must vote:
Never vote for an incumbent. Never vote for a lawyer. Period.
Keep in mind that most of the Washington inbred criminal elite are lawyers.
Vote for new blood, some good, rough, wild yellow dog cur blood.”
Wonder what she would have thought of the current “… wild yellow dog cur blood.”?
I’ll bet she would have figured Trump has polluted the cur blood.
Wow! after years of the GOP bowing to Obama, you think they won’t bow to Hillary? I cannot believe you actually wrote that! Trump is in no way the best candidate for President, but the least of two evils is better than the worst of two evils. Trump at least has a desire to make America Great again. Hillary just wants to let the country be overrun with illegals, and line the Clinton foundation with plenty of retirement $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
“…the least of two evils is better than the worst of two evils.”
How do you choose which is the “least” evil?
I’d like to see all ballots with NO President chosen, a blank spot in that square. Chaos? Yes! But it will surely make Congress think while they sort out the mess to decide.
Claire, I do not mean to diminish any woman’s experience with a predator. I’ve seen the aftermath, and it is ugly. The scarring lasts a lifetime. How many women function in a world full of men, any one of whom they can reasonably fear could be the next assaulter, is beyond me.
As pertains to Trump, so far there have been no ‘bimbo erruptions’ . Does that mean he never crossed the line? No. For all I know, he could be every bit as bad as Bill Clinton. But where is the evidence of it? If there is no complaint, we can only surmise that there might have been a crime based on locker room talk.
Granted, the women may have been intimidated or passed it off as ‘boys will be boys’ and left it at that. That doesn’t mean the assault didn’t take place. A charge of sexual assault, however, requires at least one victim to make the claim. So far there haven’t been any that I am aware of (we’ll see what tomorrow brings).
If he forced himself on unwilling women, he is a predator. Period.
Thank you, Ron. That was a very understanding reply.
“As pertains to Trump, so far there have been no ‘bimbo erruptions’ . Does that mean he never crossed the line? No. For all I know, he could be every bit as bad as Bill Clinton.”
I completely agree. So far, the only damning accusations have come out of Trump’s own mouth — and there’s no evidence that a word he utters is true. Even if he’s done what he claims, I believe Hillary Clinton’s crimes are far, far worse. And there’s far more evidence of real wrongdoing on her part and the part of her compliant cronies (from staff members to the head of the FBI).
To me it’s rather simple.
Hillary is clearly wholly corrupt and dedicated to disarming the plebs.
Trump is a buffoon who will say anything he believes will get the plebs to follow him.
Hillary will impede my ability to position my family to survive the disintegration of our current culture.
Trump will try to maintain the appearance of the status quo, which may give me more time to position my family to survive the turmoil when things collapse.
To those who think Trump is going to be the next figurehead behind which brownshirts assemble; my wife is Asian and Buddhist, I have Jewish and Arabic ancestry and am non-religious, and neither of us is concerned.
As far as “Islamaphobia” goes, keep in mind that Islam isn’t just a theological doctrine, it’s a doctrine of total social, economic, and spiritual control….the ultimate Statism. I’ve been living in the Middle East for the last 12 years in countries which are Muslim controlled. Corruption is rampant, hypocrisy is the norm, and non-Muslims are discriminated against on a regular basis and their religion is given as a justification. There are plenty of Muslims who are nice people, but the system of belief on which their religion is based does not provide for equality between Muslims and non-Muslims.
Sometimes we need to acknowledge that an ideology is wrong, even if we value the idea that all voices should be heard.
Well-put, LowKey.
And just in case anybody hereabouts doubted that Hillary has long had the media in her pocket, here’s the latest from the latest Guccifer 2.0 datadump and The Intercept:
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/09/exclusive-new-email-leak-reveals-clinton-campaigns-cozy-press-relationship/
[…] http://www.clairewolfe.com/blog/2016/10/08/one-month-away-whats-the-best-possible-outcome/ […]
Dilbert creator Scott Adams endorses Gary Johnson — this week, anyhow.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151552548531/why-i-endorse-gary-johnson-this-week
And his astute comments on the second debate:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151599421561/quick-debate-reactions-from-switzerland
And on the impact of Trump’s “pussy tape”:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151504993671/why-does-this-happen-on-my-vacation-the-trump#_=_
Adams is as smartly analytical as he is humorous.
Claire, the Republican Senate or house dill do nothing to stop Hilldebeast because they are in on the scam. She will shut down freedom of does he labeling it ghosted speech, and even you could see your site and writing restricted. She us the type that does not like ” individualists” . Too much liberty is not good in her book. So I disgree. I’d rather have the goon in their stumbling that Cruella Deville in the flesh.
Both Trump or Hillary will be increasing the size of government from what they both advocate, as Thomas Jefferson once said;
“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground.”
I’ve gotten to the point in life where yielding liberty is no longer acceptable (maybe that is unnatural and that is just me) so I will support neither of these candidates and for the first time in my voting life not vote for a presidential candidate, maybe I’ll write in both of my dogs.
Instead my focus will be on what will follow once this republic becomes officially over, which is fast approaching IMHO.
If she is elected there will be a revolution…at least in this part of the world. I don’t know if it will result in more liberty for us, but there won’t be less than under HER.
Trump is a grubby, smudged, blank piece of paper – you have no idea if he will be a diamond in the rough or just lost. Regardless of which it will be better than a Clinton loaded Scotus and the immediate push to abrogate the Bill of Rights.. Are you forgetting that Paul Ryan is in the front pocket of Harry Reid ?? Ryan the compromiser is going to hold the line. Pathetic logic there.
And McConnell is worse than Ryan.
Best we can hope for is the Matt Bracken “What I saw at the coup” scenario.
WRT Nehemiah Scudder; Is Marxism not a religion of sorts?
Certainly, many adherents of the Left are Hoffer’s ‘true believers’ at any rate.
And isn’t Soetero a Constitution-ignoring tyrant?
I submit that these united States already have had our first ‘Nehemiah Scudder’………
Historian said
I submit that these united States already have had our first ‘Nehemiah Scudder’………
I’d agree with that. We’ve managed to bounce mostly back from our previous Scudders like Lincoln, TR, Wilson and FDR, to name just four. Not as good as new, no, but somewhere closer to where we were before they ruled. Too early to tell whether we can recover from the more recent ones like Bush 43. But I don’t see how we recover from Barack Scudder if we follow him up with Hillary Scudder.
Regarding brownshirts, I don’t doubt you’ve had to use moderator discretion, Claire. I’m just wondering what led you to conclude they were real brownshirts as opposed to rats and other agents provocateur?