And yet, such brute slaughter has become acceptable. Common.
No decent human being could have participated in this long, drawn-out murder. No decent human being could condone it. No law could justify it. The agents of the state that committed this vicious crime should be treated no differently than the followers of Charles Manson. They are thrill killers, nothing more. They are no better than the rest of their ilk, from Charles Starkweather to Ted Bundy. May they get what they deserve — and then some.
They kill because they can. Obviously the Albequerque City Council like having murders on their payroll and the citizens that vote for those council members would seem to condone it as well. It will probably continue until APD starts killing members of the protected classes.
They manage to combine extreme bullying with extreme cowardice. These bastards will be hanging from lamp posts some day.
It’s tough to top the wrongfulness of this from many different angles, but some of the apologists manage to come close.
Here’s some very tough logic that nobody can rationally deny, yet none of us want to accept—either this stuff gets stopped, or it doesn’t.
I’m very surprised to see the Albuquerque police have done this. There used to be several of them as instructors at Thunder Ranch. None of them that I met would ever have acted like this. One of them, Steve Rodriguez, was a SWAT sniper who had shot several people in the performance of his duties. I found him to be extremely decent with no hint of any pathological desire to kill. He was let go by his department because of bad publicity, despite the fact that his actions seemed justified. Things clearly have changed there, with obviously poor training being only part of the problem. Appalling is much too mild a word to describe this. I certainly want the perps jailed at the least, but I won’t hold my breath.
Some FYI links on Steve Rodriguez:
But then again, this was just a homeless white man.
Well, well, Shel. My names Frank.
EN, clearly I have a serious cultural deficit. You went way over my head with that one.
Obviously, none of the following are relevant:
I get a lot of ABQ news, and the ABQ cops are trigger crazy. They killed another guy Tuesday just hours after the protest over them killing the camper. They kill so often even the feds have noticed. Probably looking for new recruits for the Federal Baby Incinerators or something.
If significant numbers of the ABQ citizens cared they could shut down the city with protests, for days if need be. That gets attention. Something similar to Occupy ABQ might do the trick. They could also take to the hills, camp illegally, in reasonable numbers and wait for the police confrontations. At a minimum they should pressure the city council to get rid of the ordinance that makes being homeless illegal.
Today, in 2014, in America, no decant human being can put on that uniform. Not in any city, county or state.
Not important Shel. I just thought we might have some friends in common
I noticed that the APD Travel Safety web page makes no mention of “avoid the area or risk death by cop”. These guys are just a bit over the top. And the “boo-rah!” after shooting a man in the back makes the “peace officer” a very juicy target indeed.
At least we know now to avoid that place. And the people that live there knows what they would have to do when SHTF. What would concern me are the places that’s like Albuquerque that nobody but the locals know.
No wonder Bugs gets mixed up at Albuquerque. Probably was trying to avoid the cops there.
Another thing people could do is simply shun these assholes. Put their faces and names up everywhere, “Don’t do business with these murderers!”
Off topic, Claire, have you seen what is going on with Angel Vivas?
Have you done your 3 today?
Did mine before breakfast.
Getting past the outrage for a moment, as an instructor I have to comment from a training perspective on the 4th picture, the “moment police opened fire” one, and the video.
The officers are standing on a rocky, steep hillside. Not good footing. The one with the cam shoots just to the left of the three much-closer officers. The first officer to fire apparently does so over the head of the K-9 officer and the dog.
In Vietnam my 18-year-old grunts knew better than to get in a cluster**** like that.
Paul — Hadn’t seen or heard. Wow. That deserved a post of its own — and quickly got one.
Thank you for the voice-of-experience observations, LarryA.
I suspect the killers weren’t afraid to cluster like that because they knew darned well that the guy they were about to kill wasn’t dangerous to them. But then, who knows? Bad training and stupidity seem as common as bad attitude with people like those.
EN, I’m slow on the uptake sometimes, to note the obvious. Names often get lost in the fog between my ears. Did you teach there? Did you have a Colt Officer’s Model with 20k rounds through it? Or did you tell us that every round that goes downrange has a lawyer attached to it and also prefer fixed stocks for regular patrol officers?
My experience at Thunder Ranch was long enough ago that the people I knew must be retired by now and the people in the latest incident probably weren’t even working yet. So really the difference is the difference in generations. The older ones who really were police officers are even more appalled at this kind of conduct than I am.
As Jim Goad has aptly pointed out in his book The Redneck Manifesto, every generation needs a scapegoat; right now it happens to be rednecks. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_11/187-3064970-5705229?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the%20redneck%20manifesto&sprefix=the+redneck%2Cstripbooks%2C231&rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3Athe%20redneck%20manifesto So if you’re a policeman and just want to kill someone, pick a white male, that’s your best “shot.”
In this situation the officers were a danger to themselves. Dang near a circular firing squad.
So I can safely assume you went to Tejas? My association with TR has only been in the last three years, although I’m not an instructor they let me wear a staff hat like I know what I’m doing (they love to help the mentally challenged 😉 ). Was up in TR Oregon in Feb and stayed at the Cabin. I work on projects for Clint and Heidi. Hope to be heading back next month, depending on how Clint’s feeling physically. And yes, I know of who you speak, although I believe it’s a Colt Commander and Heidi was the one who oh so many years ago wrote “every bullet that goes downrange has a lawyer attached to it.” Going to TR is like going to play land for me. It’s all about cool guns, dogs and buffalo robes.
Yes, I was in TX; I’ve never been to his place in OR. My recollection is pretty clear, I think, in that it was an Officer’s Model Colt. And the person who spoke about the attached lawyers was an Albuquerque policeman. My favorite class there was Precision Rifle I. I even got the T-shirt: “I smoked the tower at Thunder Ranch.” I did make all the hits from the tower on my cardboard and got all four hits on the “4-60” drill because I practiced patience at home before going to TX. When they had us work our way down the street at ground level, the last spot required being scrunched up in a right hand firing position. I’m left handed, and Clint kept telling me not to shoot until I was set properly. Of course I ignored him and pulled the trigger as soon as the sights were on the target. He was quite concerned because I had a mark on my forehead from the scope and I was quite happy because I had hit the target. “Only hits count,” as you know. He asked me if I were going to take the next level course and I told him I wasn’t because I didn’t think I could concentrate adequately taking both courses in a row. He understood and may well remember the incident, although he didn’t know me by Shel then. And I really did like Steve Rodriguez a lot.
Never met Steve but I can say that the Smiths think the world of him. He was there last fall for High Angle Rifle. If you have the rifle for it, take the High Angle class. .308s out to 1400 yards, shooting 12″x18″ steel silhouettes, all done at an elevation of 7000 ft to give you some weather challenges. Kind of a specialty class but the shooters love it. The other one that’s interesting is the Long Range AR class. Targets out to 700 yards. Kick in the ass to watch these guys getting hits at 6 and 700 yard targets with 16″ barrel ARs. That’s the class I was there for last month. Clint told me, “you can fake it out to 500…. but beyond that you gotta know what you’re doing.” And that’s an understatement. They are great people and have been wonderful to me. I rather hang out with Clint than just about anyone in the world. What can you say about a guy who has even gone to the trouble of getting shot a couple of times to enhance his teaching. 😉
Noveske his own self
Fire on the mountain
It’s a few miles walk to the High Angle range
Thanks, EN, but like Claire with her toes, I’ve managed to bang up an Achilles tendon. The short story is that I’m getting around O.K. but I’m not yet up to a multi-mile hike in the mountains while carrying gear. I’m also pathetically out of shape at present.
I’d also have to figure which of my Florida clothes would work best 🙂
I’d also have to figure which of my Florida clothes would work best 🙂
There are two philosophies for low temperatures: bundle up and be cold, or wear your Florida stuff and be numb. 🙂
Shel, the HART class is definitely tough physically, heart pounding, knee shaking, cold, windy… not to mention they love to add stress. But the long range AR class is mostly about marksmanship under time and target ID stress. It’s conducted on a covered range deck (OK, it’s cold, no doubt but you can dress and a lot of people bring pads and sleeping bags to shoot on, it’s not that bad) and it’s all done from the prone.
Larry, numb can be good for trigger control, you don’t feel or anticipate the trigger break. However, manipulation of the weapon, magazine changes and such, can be a bit difficult. I once explained to Mrs Smith that I don’t shoot well while shivering… she told me, “well then, stop shivering.”
I did check Clint’s site. Almost all of his classes are full, which I consider a very good thing, both for society and for a decent person like him. I’m not sure I want to go diagonally across the country from FL for a course right now. If I decide to try some long range stuff, I may end up there after all. Thanks.
Shel, if you do see a class you’re interested in get your name on the list. There’s always a lot of withdrawals starting in late summer. Being full is just the nature of TR. But cancellations are common. And being “alumni” is very helpful. 😉