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Where will you be for Civil War II?

Yes, I know. According to the strictest definition (factions battling violently to control the same government) the U.S. hasn’t had Civil War I — yet. But leave that quibble aside for the moment; there are other definitions. Suddenly, talk of upcoming Civil War II is everywhere.

Oh sure, predictions of war have been made on the political fringes for decades. But now they’re mainstream — or as close to mainstream as you can get without having the (increasingly empty-headed) New York Times do a cosmopolitan feature on what fashionable Manhattanites should wear apres battle.

I’ve never been convinced we’re headed for outright warfare. Urban skirmishes, sure. Already happening, right here in the Pacific Northwest neighborhood (Hello, Portlandia). Neighborhoods so bad they might as well be war zones? Welcome to Chicago. But outright, nationwide, everybody’s-on-one-side-or-another and everybody’s involved whether they want to be or not warfare?

I was a doubter. Still am. But maybe not so deep a doubter.

The last few years have revealed such cultural gulfs it’s impossible to see any place to lay foundations for bridges. And those on the “blue” side of the gulfs aren’t content to let those on the other side go their own way in peace.

Does thoughtful discourse ever recover once one side is reduced to frothing hatred of people they don’t even know? Can thoughtful discourse even exist in the Age of Twitter?

Now that the most ardent anti-gunners are making it increasingly clear they want all gun owners dead, imprisoned, or raided by violent SWAT teams — and now that Bloombergians are on the ascendancy in places that used to be blue but gun friendly — is there anything left to do besides draw lines and dig trenches?

When even free speech, which the left considered sacred for hundreds of years, is damned as a tool of oppression, is it worth trying to talk to those who don’t get, and don’t want to get, history?

Nope. It’s all coming down to the ever-more violent screeching of blue against red, women against men, self-decreed oppressed classes against whoever they believe is responsible for their grievances (real and imaginary) this week. When you’ve got Yale graduates ranting that unemployed, high school educated welders and delivery drivers in the hinterlands are using their white male privilege to keep said grads from … whatever entitlement they feel they’re not getting … you’ve got nothing.

When millions of perfectly harmless souls are dismissed as KKK thugs because they cast the “wrong” v*te in an election … you’ve got nowhere to go.

When every gun owner is damned as a murderer … you’ve gone as far down in the much-vaunted “national conversation on guns” as you can get.

When you’ve got a national legislature whose members think that wearing white in protest or sitting behind the president making faces is how their job is properly done … well, it’s a ridiculous show, but really, they haven’t been doing a useful job anyhow. So what does it matter if they’re now revealing definitively that our “leaders” are without civility, leadership skills, constitutional knowledge, or plain old commonsense Clue?

There’s not a sign in the world that government, media, academia, the corporate world, or the freelance intelligentsia is going to get a grip any time soon. There’s only evidence they’ve recently lost any tenuous grip they might ever have had.

Short of a Lathe of Heaven-style invasion from outer space to unite us (and who the hell wants to be united on those terms, or with people who’ve so loudly decreed their loathing for us, anyhow?), does anybody see a healthy, non-violent, rights-respecting way out of this?

—–

Just in the last week (fairly randomly chosen):

SF writer Sarah Hoyt urged the need to find ways to be less vulnerable to the crazed left now that they’re convinced that everyone not as “woke” as they is an enemy who must be financially and reputationally ruined.

Keith Weiner laid out the stages of the death of goodwill and left us to ponder the catastrophe that leads to. [CORRECTION: This piece is several years old so doesn’t belong in a list of very current posts. But it’s worthwhile, so I’m leaving it here.)

Kevin D. Williamson (still trying to reason with the people who’ve already tried to destroy his career because of his views) observes the danger of standing in the way of those convinced they have a manifest destiny to rule but who find the peasants blocking their path to Glorious Destiny.

Nathan Barton uses the abortion debate as an example of how many issues are going beyond all possibility of solving, and into higher levels of rage and intransigence.

And Robert Gore has scaled his Straight Line Logic blog way back because he’s weary of doing Isaiah’s job. It’s a small thing, and he has multiple reasons. But one sign of violence to come is when good and previously vocal people go ominously quiet.

Most of these don’t outright mention war. They just point in the direction of inevitability. Pseudononymous “Johnny Paratrooper,” however, gets right down to “Civil Wars and Woes.”

Agree or disagree with the specific positions and beliefs, war talk in in the air.

—–

A lot of us have pursued strategies of retreat — the strategic retreat of the survivalist, the practical retreat of the Outlaw Ghost, the difficult moral retreat of the Outlaw Mole or Cockapoo. We’ve gotten out of cities, academia, conventional jobs, and the political fray. We’ve created low profiles, laid out escape routes, and done other things to reduce our vulnerability to tyranny.

But war, if it comes, may find us anywhere.

Oh, I think if war does come, it will begin in urban conflicts. It would be comforting to think it would stay there, as well — with the woke battling the “differently woke,” media shredding media, politics turning violently against politicians, cops openly revealed as soldiers for hire, and academia tearing itself apart brick by brick and premise by premise.

But I’m not sanguine about that. At some point, the minds of the woke and the would-be divine-right rulers turn toward the people they already blame for thwarting their will — us ordinary peasants out here in the big sea of red. And … well, there’s just no telling.

Look at any past war you care to study. Hellish conflicts end up in the strangest, most obscure places just because there’s a road or a bridge or a dam or a crop or a hill somebody considers important. People die hideously because a random roll of the dice lands war on the place they’ve chosen to live.

Worse if the people living around that prominent, must-hold point are mere deplorables (clinging to their guns, their religion, their Constitution, their Bill of Rights, their individualism, their philosophy, or their way of life). Then who cares if they, their town, their homes, their fortunes, their land, their lives, their children, or everything else they hold dear gets destroyed?

In our case, matters could be extreme because we might not just be perceived as collateral damage, innocents inconveniently near some desired object. Already millions of us are actively hated by people who know almost nothing about us — and don’t care to know, because they’ve already judged us to be vermin, deserving only extermination. It could be more like Stalin and the kulaks than merely having to “destroy the village to save it.”

I don’t mean to be a complete downer here. I have no crystal ball and I’m certainly no military strategist. Far from it. I’m guessing, just like everybody else. (Except perhaps Selco, who has just published a new book about lessons learned from living through that kind of warfare.)

But I don’t think we can count on our philosophical or physical retreat or our conventional preparedness to save us.

Of course, as well armed as we are (and will continue to be), we can always put up one hell of an impressive defense. And while we’re not as evil as the Woke Twitterverse thinks we are, we’re not as dumb as they imagine, either. They underestimate us.

Still …

Source

25 Comments

  1. Myself
    Myself February 8, 2019 6:09 am

    And while we’re not as evil as the Woke Twitterverse thinks we are, we’re not as dumb as they imagine, either. They underestimate us.

    Any chance you’ve done the same about “them”?

  2. Claire
    Claire February 8, 2019 6:14 am

    “Any chance you’ve done the same about “them”?”

    Yes. But there’s ample evidence of widespread crazed left-wing hostility toward us. as well as evidence of evidence of their policies and proposed policies ; there’s very little evidence that all people in the red zones or all who v*ted for Trump are murderous KKK members.

    Added:

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2019/02/08/just-saying/

  3. Pat
    Pat February 8, 2019 7:14 am

    “Where will you be…?”

    Right here, waiting for it. And you know, it will almost be a relief when it comes. WAITING is far worse than being in the midst of it.

    Whether waiting for Civil War II to descend on us, or eagerly waiting to “kill the bastards” (literally or figuratively)… how much soul – compassion, patience, tolerance, and understanding, even among ourselves – have we lost over the past years while listening to the country (and the world) scream?

  4. Myself
    Myself February 8, 2019 9:37 am

    there’s very little evidence that all people in the red zones or all who v*ted for Trump are murderous KKK members.

    But all people in blue zones, or all who didn’t v*te for Trump a re murderous thugs coming to kill you?

    Frankly all I see is the same kabuki theater government has always been, nothing’s really changed from 2 years ago, twenty years ago, or fifty years ago

  5. Joel
    Joel February 8, 2019 10:13 am

    Any chance you’ve done the same about “them”?

    When it’s just kids on college campuses banging drums and demanding the death of all who choose to break the small end of the boiled egg, you can easily dismiss the rhetoric as hyperbolic. Now those very people are being elected to Congress. A major presidential candidate dismissed the whole center of the country with slurs like “basket of deplorables” and “You don’t like black people getting rights, you don’t like women getting jobs, you don’t want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are,…” and promised to solve that problem. And that person was applauded. In that climate it’s hard and possibly suicidal to underestimate the threat.

    There are times when I genuinely fear the Awkward Stage is coming to a close. I don’t know whether to mourn or celebrate the fact that, after most of a lifetime of waiting, I’m too old and bent to realistically plan on taking more than a small part in the next phase. But I can’t see myself living in the promised utopia of our would-be masters and I never expected to die in bed.

  6. Joel
    Joel February 8, 2019 10:19 am

    Having said the above, I must admit that every time I read comments like some at that WRSA link I wonder if our would-be masters are entirely wrong in some of their denunciations of the “red zone.” Jesus, that site is a cesspool.

  7. Claire
    Claire February 8, 2019 10:23 am

    “But all people in blue zones, or all who didn’t v*te for Trump a re murderous thugs coming to kill you?”

    I didn’t say ALL or imply it. I think Joel’s long comment addresses the real issue very well.

    Total contempt for “red zone” people IS now mainstream on the left. Those who outright call for our extermination may remain in the minority for now, but they represent a trend — and where are the “moderate” voices on the left defending us and decrying their fellow travelers’ murderous hatred toward innocent people?

  8. Claire
    Claire February 8, 2019 10:27 am

    “Jesus, that site is a cesspool.”

    I agree, and it’s a damn shame. I think WRSA was better off when comments weren’t allowed, but that comment section certainly does show there are real creeps on the “red” side, too.

  9. deLaune
    deLaune February 8, 2019 10:54 am

    I’m sitting this one out (I hope). A huge percentage of Florida democrats are black and hispanic. They habitually fail to cooperate with the police.
    The police are too few to enforce a crackdown on “deplorables” without enthusiastic cooperation from the citizens. I doubt that even the Florida guard would have anything to do with repressing the citizens.
    Remember hurricane Katrina? The Louisiana governor had to bring in the Coasties and California cops to do the illegal gun confiscations.

    Of course, all bets are off if Washington sends in the regular army and/or marines.

  10. RW
    RW February 8, 2019 1:46 pm

    “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”

    ― Rudyard Kipling

  11. Comrade X
    Comrade X February 8, 2019 1:51 pm

    “Where will you be…?”

    Somewhere else of where I am now within the year (on high ground in a rural setting where the good out number the bad or clueless versus now’s high ground in an urban setting where the clueless & bad outnumber the good, odds are important kinda like Josey Wales always keeping the sun behind him), hopefully we have the time or I’ll make due with what I have (which ain’t totally bad). I’m behind enemy lines now for sure but there are so many levels of enemy lines; can anyone say for sure that they are not also? I’m just interested in removing a few levels (it that odds thing again).

    I agree with Pat; it will almost be a relief when it comes, I want it in my time so that my grand kids can be free when they get my age, OK I do believe good will win over bad but there will be a fair requirement of patriot manure mixed in with that of tyranny to ever have a live & vibrant tree of liberty again, as TJ once mentioned.

    I also agree with Joel; “Jesus, that site is a cesspool.” even though I go there everyday to check the postings but rarely if ever do I even try to smell the odors from that pool by commenting or reading comments. And as Claire referred too we must recognized that there is evil on our side too, just because someone is aiming in the same direction as you that in itself has very little to do with the soul of that person that’s a separate issue that should be determined on an individual basis IMHO, the way I look at it is that you pretty much have the rest of your life (however long or short that may be if you evaluate wrongly) to make that evaluation.

    BTW there is no doubt in my mine the storm clouds are on the horizon and that we all will get wet (no matter what shelter or raincoat nor umbrella we might have) to some degree if not out right washed away, this storm will be biblical, it will!

  12. Jorge
    Jorge February 8, 2019 5:25 pm

    I will be here. I hope my location is far enough away from the madness. I hope it continues to be a very boring place in terms of state and other organized violence.

    If it comes in my life time, which I sincerely hope not, I hope that I can provide a safe haven for some of those who will need it and that I care about.

  13. larryarnold
    larryarnold February 8, 2019 9:08 pm

    You can’t dismiss the Woke Folk as totally hopeless. They did accurately predict that the losing side in 2016 would never accept the results, and would cause a great deal of chaos. 😉

    And yes, deLaune, a lot of people remember Katrina. It was a wake-up call, equal to 9-11, that even small-town governments are heeding.

    I just hope being in a small town will isolate things enough that I’ll be around when the Woke experience the “oops moment,” when they figure out they aren’t either the rock or the hard place. “Whether the pitcher hits the stone or the stone hits the pitcher, it’s going to be bad for the pitcher.”

  14. Anonymous
    Anonymous February 9, 2019 12:24 am

    WRSA comments are a fine place to learn that most traditional conservatives are just as strong of control freaks as the liberals. Not just the neocons who drum up wars for arms makers, but all conservatives. There is no left/right or novel/traditional spectrum, there is more/less control spectrum.

    Thought experiment. What amount of guns-threatened-to-be-in-faces would it take to stop one of your average family members from voting? Not change their mind for what they want, but stop them from acting with a threat of punishment. The simple truth is that amount is what it’s going to take.

  15. Claire
    Claire February 9, 2019 10:41 am

    “Thought experiment. What amount of guns-threatened-to-be-in-faces would it take to stop one of your average family members from voting? Not change their mind for what they want, but stop them from acting with a threat of punishment. The simple truth is that amount is what it’s going to take.”

    Your observation about the more/less control spectrum is a good one.

    But the quoted thought experiment is very, very much on the super-control end of that spectrum. Wowza. Why would anybody even come up with the idea of shoving guns in people’s faces to prevent them from v*ting? Talk about control freakery!

    Why not instead work peacefully toward the day when v*ting to impose majority will on the minority becomes irrelevant?

  16. Anonymous
    Anonymous February 9, 2019 11:44 am

    But the quoted statement is very, very much on the super-control end of that spectrum.

    No, it’s on the super-self-defense end. Control means I go to their home, disturb their peace, and threaten them with murder while demanding they do some behavior. Defense means I’m the innocent person at home instead of the aggressor person. One side of this violent interaction is doing self-defense, the other side is doing government.

    Why would anybody even come up with the idea of shoving guns in people’s faces to prevent them from v*ting? Talk about control freakery!

    I don’t think you object to threatening to shove guns in peoples’ faces to prevent them from planning and acting on armed robbery. Voting is merely where the hired criminal gang has more members. Evil doesn’t vanish just because the criminal gang has millions of members. Your instincts tell you it does, it feels emotionally natural, but that’s just your instincts giving you bad advice. Monkey troops work for monkeys, but humans have numerically outgrown that form of organization.

    Why not instead work peacefully toward the day when v*ting to impose majority will on the minority becomes irrelevant?

    “Becomes irrelevant” could mean 1) “persons in the majority no longer have an urge to do it”, or 2) “self-defense becomes militarily capable enough that persons in the majority can no longer succeed with their predatory plans”. 1) is not going to happen because government is a religion, justified by beliefs contrary to evidence. That leaves 2).

    Freethinkers, persons who independently work out moral rules for themselves, are 1% of population and are born, not made. That rate is not increased if parents or neighbors are freethinkers. Early America had the highest concentration of freethinkers ever, concentration by emigration, but still they were re-enslaved by their children. Freedomistas are permanently a 1% minority. If they want freedom they must figure out how to get it while remaining a 1% minority in their family.

    Artificial barriers which have the military effect of mountains and oceans, terrain which is expensive to cross and operate in, are a less combative approach. A modern version of artificial mountains and oceans are bitcoin-like things and silk-road-like things. When crime no longer pays, because tax collection costs more than it collects, organized crime will stop. Early America achieved this result by being on the other side of an ocean from the logistical support for the soldiers. But at no time did anyone persuade or educate the British aristocracy out of wanting to be an empire!

    Perhaps you could do a sequel to Hardyville which portrays a result more like _Snow Crash_, and shows freedom appearing in neighborhood compounds where small groups of like-minded people are successfully defending it with walls and robot guard dogs etc.

  17. Joel
    Joel February 9, 2019 11:49 am

    WRSA comments are a fine place to learn that most traditional conservatives are just as strong of control freaks as the liberals. Not just the neocons who drum up wars for arms makers, but all conservatives. There is no left/right or novel/traditional spectrum, there is more/less control spectrum.

    True, and it’s been recognized for a long time. Your average conservative is no more a freedomista than your average ‘progressive.’ But until the past few years I had enjoyed the delusion that we’d at least driven the truly virulent racists and out-and-out nazi-wannabes into the shadows. Lately, thanks to all the open anti-white racism but also alas to the glories of anonymous Internet posting, they’ve come out to play. I can talk to a conservative, even while accepting that he’s no ally. But I have no use at all for bigots such as those who like to hang around and befoul WRSA.

  18. Claire
    Claire February 9, 2019 12:07 pm

    “I don’t think you object to threatening to shove guns in peoples’ faces to prevent them from planning and acting on armed robbery. Voting is merely where the hired criminal gang has more members.”

    Nope. It’s undoubtedly true that the aggregate result of v*ting imposes rule by criminal gangs, and that even in principle the notion of a majority forcing a minority to do its will (or a minority forcing a majority to do its will) is evil. It’s true that v*ting is a way of doing exactly that while the individual v*ter escapes responsibility for the eventual criminal acts.

    But it’s also true that each individual v*ter is accomplishing nothing more with his or her ballot than (as some wise person I can’t recall once said) “expressing 1/100 millionth of an opinion.”

    That’s both the power and the great deception of “democracy.” The criminal gangs dupe the v*ters, who in turn support the gangsters because they know no other alternative.

    But to even think about shooting, or threatening to shoot, all those millions of individuals for expressing their pathetic (although, granted, powerful-in-aggregate) opinions is control freakery and genocide on a historic scale. Proposing the most aggressively violent course of action — murdering or threatening to murder brainwashed people for expressing their opinions — would produce nothing but the most hellish dictatorship on earth. No one who actually gave a damn about individual freedom would even turn his mind in that direction.

  19. John Wilder
    John Wilder February 9, 2019 7:39 pm

    The Spanish Civil War keeps showing up in comments around the ‘net. As the left keeps going farther left, the parallels get creepy. There is an excellent British documentary (probably from the 1970s) on Youtube, about six hours worth.

    Here is the first episode:

  20. Anonymous
    Anonymous February 10, 2019 12:08 am

    The method by which average citizens/slaves give power to rulers is by their obedience every day to bad laws. In particular, the bad laws they help enforce by snitching on their neighbors. Jones doesn’t have a permit! Get him!

    I’m imagining this ‘it’s immoral to fight violently enough to win’ conversation happening among scapegoats locked inside a boxcar. Moral questions about proportionality are only appropriate to discuss after strategies are invented which can plausibly win. If you can think of a less drastic strategy then please propose it. We do know education isn’t a winning strategy. You in particular have been dead serious at doing education, yet freedom has been losing ground. Let’s suppose the common man is brainwashed. So? They’re still hazardous.

    I am delighted at the lack of obedience to gun control laws in Connecticut, California, New Jersey, and Boulder…backed by the willingness to go to war in self-defense. But I don’t think it’s enough sedition, fast enough, to win.

  21. Anonymous
    Anonymous February 10, 2019 12:44 am

    Let’s vote to rob a bank. As we’re merely dupes expressing our pathetic opinions, we deserve no penalty. Opposing us by threatening death as a punishment does not aid individual freedom. When the bank robbing gang numbers 10 people see it one way, and even the getaway driver is held responsible for murdering the teller. When the gang numbers 10,000 people see it another way, and call it “legitimate”. That’s what our instincts tell us. But that doesn’t make rational sense. I am merely advocating liberty and justice for all by enforcing the laws against armed robbery equally and without favor, no matter who the criminal’s employer is or how numerous the members of his gang.

    When the criminals threaten death camps, some people are willing to advocate fighting. But when the threat is financial ruin because affordable medicine has been banned, most say that should be accepted. The threat shrinks from certain death to maybe death, but the “proportional” response shrinks from war to pacifism? That’s not proportional.

  22. Claire
    Claire February 10, 2019 12:23 pm

    “I am merely advocating liberty and justice for all by enforcing the laws against armed robbery equally and without favor”

    Ah, so your desire to kill or threaten to kill millions of people is based on your commitment to enforcing laws (en-force-ing), at any cost. Well, that explains why your idea of “liberty and justice for all” is so twisted. I doubt the millions of dead you wish for — or their children, their friends, their spouses, their employers, or their neighbors — would consider themselves recipients of either liberty or justice from anyone carrying out your creepy will.

    ” If you can think of a less drastic strategy then please propose it.”

    What exactly do you think I’ve been doing for most of the last several decades?

    And yes, freedom is losing ground. And that’s heartbreaking — yet I recognize that one obscure writer is unlikely to be able to change that on a societal scale. My aim has always been to help individuals and voluntary groups of individuals live more free, even if the rest of the world chooses otherwise.

    Freedom can’t be imposed at gunpoint, either by the state or by the will of freelance philosophers posting anonymously on the Internet.

    If you honestly believe freedom can be achieved by mass murder or mass threats of murder, then your philosophy has more in common with Pol Pot’s or Stalin’s than mine.

    Please go away. If you try to post your advocacy of mass murder here again, I’ll ban you.

  23. Karel
    Karel February 10, 2019 1:58 pm

    You’re wrong, Clair. Non isn’t in favor of enforcing all laws. He doesn’t want the laws against murder or assault enforced at least not as long as he and the people he delegates are committing the crimes.

    Didn’t you once have a neighbor who was killing people because he thought they were bad and he thought he was improving the community by getting rid of the bad people? That sounds just like Non and his argument about killing voters being self defense.

    Hey, Non, I used to vote. My mother still does and she lives with me. If I give you my address, will you come try to kill us? It would prove that whatever else you are you’re not a hypocrite. We’ll be ready for you.

  24. ellendra
    ellendra February 12, 2019 8:13 am

    I’ve always wondered how people could justify to themselves such extreme violence against unarmed people.

    Now we know.

  25. Rocketman
    Rocketman February 14, 2019 12:00 am

    Quick question: Where’s the best place to be when an atomic bomb goes off? The answer is anywhere but where it goes off. If there is a confrontation between the left and the right, don’t be expected to be welcomed with open arms if your on one side or the other if you think you belong on that side. That side may decide that you not sufficiently enough on their side and thus regard you as the enemy. The smart people will have already decided that being somewhere else, meaning out of the country is the best choice and will provide you with the best opportunity to see old age. I’ve chosen Paraguay. They are the most pro-gun country in South America, have a self sufficient work force, electrical power and plenty of fresh water. The government there is relatively weak and if you just want to be left alone you can have your wish.

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