Back on the subject of snitching …
A friend of mine with, shall we say, interested and varied experiences in life (e.g. having seen the justice system from both sides), wrote this in response to my earlier posts on this subject:
If I could have seen [you know who] right before she got busted, I would say this:
1. Cops lie. They lie and lie and lie. They care about nothing except busting people. If they say they care, they are lying. You are meat to them. Smelly meat. You are cluttering up their life, and they want to get rid of you.
2. Say absolutely nothing. When they read you your Miranda rights, believe every word. Those words are likely the only thing that they say that is absolutely true. EVERYTHING you say will be used against you. EVERYTHING.
3. making a ‘deal’ with the cops is your business. If you do so, do it with the advice of a competent attorney. But a ‘deal’ aka plea bargain is one thing, ratting people out, even people you don’t know, is something else again. Actions have consequences. All actions. The consequences may be physical, they may be karmic, but they will be there. What you send out, comes back. ALWAYS.
That’s a start and a good one. But what else?
There’s a lot of information online about how to deal with cops when you’re pulled over in traffic or hassled on the street. The Flex Your Rights videos alone are a treasure trove, as are the “Never talk to the police” videos.
But there’s not a lot that helps you conduct yourself if you’ve messed up and gotten busted. Sure, the advice never to talk still holds, but I wonder how many of us would have the presence of mind to follow it? How many of us would automatically fall back on the effort to talk ourselves out of the fix?
And what about the rest of the experience of being yanked into custody, threatened, stuck in a stinking holding cell with heaven knows what company, pressured, dehumanized, and generally terrorized into “compliance”?
I’ve never experienced any of that. Well, not since getting out of government school.
Even if you know, intellectually, what you ought to do (or not do), keeping the confidence, understanding, and self-control to do it under such an emotional onslaught must be a real trick.
I always thought every writer should be arrested at least once and serve at least one night in jail — but so far I’ve failed at that. And you know, I can’t say I really mind.
But that means I also don’t really know. So, voice-of-experience people. Or you lawyers out there. What advice would you give to some young person who’s coping with the whole horrendous overload of being busted?
Not just advice on what this young person should do, but advice on how to keep the integrity and presence of mind to do it.
Particularly (since this is for The Project), what would you say to someone who’s been busted and is being pressured into becoming a snitch? How would you help them stand against that?
I’d suggest looking up some of the old articles and advice they used to give to military members on how to hold up if taken prisoner might be of some use since that is how many are treated now.
I can’t speak from being arrested, but I have been proffesionally interrogated a few times in my life. Not talking is the best defense, even a simple yes or no can be used. No matter how friendly they might seem, they will use that to get into your senses. If they threaten you with coercive techniques, they will likely use them at some point any way. Harsh techniques are used because the interragator likes to use them and if allowed will use them.
The best defense for a targeted group is to limit exposure of information. Compartmentalization so that few people know each other is one. Not divulging everything to everyone is another. Disinformation is very good. Don’t look like a group that should be targted.
In barely related news, I noticed this from Reuters, but not in the U.S. press yet.
“Judge Blocks Indefinite Military Detention Provision”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/16/us-usa-security-lawsuit-idUSBRE84F1HS20120516
Matt, I saw that news about the judge, too. In the usual flow of horribleness, that was a nice moment.
Thanks also for your thought about studying military techniques on not breaking. And you’ve never been busted but you’ve been professionally interrogated … In some sort of training, I presume? (No need to say; it’s nobody’s business but yours. It’s just interesting.)
Remember that nobody involved with the system that put you in that position is your friend. None of them have your best interests at heart. Remember that, even without considering whatever it is that you were doing that brought you to their attention, the _ordinary_ American life involves committing an average of THREE FELONIES A DAY…which means that an honest answer to even what seems the most innocuous of questions could get you sent to prison, even if they end up unable to make the original case against you stick. (See ref: Martha Stewart. She’s a billionaire. And there’s no question at all that she didn’t do what they originally thought she did. Yet she went to prison because of something she did _after_ she was caught up in their net. If it happened to HER, it can bloody well happen to YOU, boyo.)
Don’t lie, either. That’s a crime too. And you’ll almost certainly get caught at it.
So. Don’t tell the truth, and also don’t lie. What’s left? Yeah, that’s right.
SHUT THE FSCK UP! Don’t talk to the cops. Don’t talk to ANYONE while you’re in custody. Your cellmate? Might be a snitch. Or a cop himself. Your family? Yeah, the visiting area is bugged. (Not “might be bugged”…”IS bugged”! Count on it like you count on the sun rising in the morning. ‘Cause one day, the sun might not rise…but visiting rooms in jail will ALWAYS be bugged!) There’s plenty of time to chit-chat after your out of custody, but until then, don’t stop exercising that “right to remain silent”.
OK, there’s one exception. Go ahead and tell anyone who asks, that you want a lawyer. Feel free to shout that from the rooftops. Because whether you really _want_ a lawyer or not, you definitely _need_ a lawyer.
Because even if you know the law, you’re in jail. You’ve just gotten a big shock. Your posessions are probably destroyed. Your pets are probably dead. One or more of your loved ones may be dead or seriously injured. You’ve probably been gang-raped, and if not…well, it’s early yet. You are, not to put too fine a point on it, no longer capable of detachment and objective rationality. This is on purpose. This is DESIGNED to throw you off, to convince you to do what under normal circumstances you’d KNOW was wrong, or at least stupid. I mean seriously…the police still get confessions all the time. Yet everyone they’ve arrested since probably before you were born has been Mirandized. And almost everyone in the world, even folks in countries that don’t HAVE Miranda rights, can recite the Miranda formula from memory, just because they watch television. Yet confessions still happen. Why?
Because folks who have just been arrested are not thinking rationally and objectively. Because they can’t. It’s too stressful.
You know who it’s not stressful for? Your lawyer. For you, this is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of the world, and no matter how tough you thought you were 30 second before the door crashed in and the gunfire started, right now your mind is racing, trying to come up with ANY idea for something that’ll make it stop, and when the cops propose one, you’re going to be mighty tempted to grab it, no matter how shitty it is. For him, it’s another day at the office. HE is perfectly capable of being rational and objective and weighing the pros and cons of any offer that’s being made to you. HE knows that a deal made with the cops isn’t worth the paper it won’t actually be written on. HE knows what promises the state, once it makes them, is obliged to keep, and what promises it can make and break at will. Even if you once did, you’ve forgotten by now. Because, you know, trauma and stress.
Hate lawyers? Well, he probably does too. Take him out for a beer after it’s all over, and he’ll tell you lawyer horror stories that’ll curl your hair. But for right now, you need him. Even if you know the law (and you should…you really should), you still need him, just because he can be objective and rational about your situation precisely when you can’t. And the state really, really wants to be negotiating with someone who’s too scared and too traumatized to be objective and rational.
Hope that helps.
The only thing I would add to Matts excellent post is the difficulty with young people is the lack of experience and emotional maturity. These a–h—s know this and exploit it.
And remember that the “public defender” works for the cops… not you. If that’s all you’ve got, fine – better than nothing, but continue to keep your mouth shut.
My youngest son got caught up in a staged “drug” bust (“informant” with an ax to grind gave bogus information) when he was just 20. Door kicked in, “evidence” planted, the whole thing. Thank God this was long enough ago that they didn’t come in shooting.
He believed the “public defender,” accepted a “plea” and wound up spending 18 months in state prison. He is now considered a “felon,” of course, and will never be able to “legally” own a gun – or a few other things.
Not only is talking to the cops a bad idea at the time, but most likely for the rest of your life.
Number one is keep your mouth shut and ask for a lawyer. I’ve not followed all of this so forgive me if anyone’s already mentioned it but any plea deal is what you would have gotten without a deal. In other words you get NOTHING by going after a plea! Unless you’re caught with a body in your trunk, a pound of coke and a Glock on your dash, and a fully Automatic AK on the front seat, all charges will be watered down to nothing anyways. In the scenario just offered the only thing they’ll go after is the body in your trunk. Even then if the body is “Willie Ice Pick”, a disreputable local, the DA will take manslaughter so he doesn’t have to go to trial. The pound of coke and the AK will have likely never even make into inventory. The entire system is set up not to go to court. Most DAs are political appointments and they only go to court over high visibility cases that further their political ambitions. They do not want to go to court without a confession, which is how copping a plea is interpreted. Attempts to make a deal makes you look slimy to the jurors because you’ve already admitted to guilt. DAs love to show an “87% (plus) conviction rate” and cops often complain that they don’t want to go after the really bad guys cuz they know they’ll be lawyered up. The result of this is cops are administering justice from the minute they pull you over, knowing full well you’ll likely walk in court. Don’t talk, get lawyer, and remain civil but uncommunicative all through the cop stuff. Just get through the cop stuff and you’ll be home free. The cop stuff is your only real punishment.
I concur with MamaLiberty on the “public defender.” Had a friend do 10 years of hard time because of a public defender. Most PD are just out of law school have no experience and are waiting to be pulled into the prosecutor side so do not have your best interest at heart.
All the local lawyers counsel everyone that asks not to talk to the police, ever. They counsel not to write or sign a statement until your lawyer tells you to. You never let them take you to the station unless you are formally under arrest either. Our local attornies quite often have experience as prosecutors since that is a contracted position in most of the small towns. They know what they talk about.
Probably obvious, but, if you need to use sign language to communicate, use it very slowly.
(I don’t have any experience getting arrested, I’ve never even gotten a traffic ticket, but I can imagine from the cop’s point of view that rapid hand movements would be a bad idea.)
Can’t overemphasize keeping silent!!!
There is absolutely nothing to be gained by talking and EVERYTHING to be lost!
You can not talk your way out of trouble, but you can sure talk your way into more trouble!
Captivity is one of the worst experiences in life, whether it is in S.E.R.E. School, an overseas jail/prison, a P.O.W. or even here in America. The use of the “Soft” (good guy) approach can be the most effective against you without training or experience to get you through it.
Remember the phones are monitored, when Mom or whoever are asking for details? Do not talk in vague generalities, it will sink you just as fast. Do not talk your case with cell mate, he is trying to get his case dismissed by giving you up. It is best to assume everyone but Lawyer is out to get you.
Do not talk about case to anyone but your lawyer!
It’s fun to joke about lawyers, but when you need one, YOU REALLY NEED ONE!
Get the best Lawyer you can, if you value your freedom.
Studying military and police interrogation techniques can help as well. As already stated SERE resistance techniques.
Two books:
“Bouncing Back” (http://www.amazon.com/Bouncing-Back-Heroic-Survived-Vietnam/dp/0395451868) will give some hints.
“You & the Police!” by Boston T. Party has some good info!
Much of this was covered very well by Matt and it needs repeating!
If you can trust more than five people to stand tall and watch your back in theses matters you are probably WRONG!
In closing “Remain Silent!”
Actual resistance to interrogation techniques training, short of attending SERE School as a member of the Armed Forces, is difficult to find.
Closest thing I know of is “onPoint Tactical” (http://www.onpointtactical.com/), never attended their training, but have heard good reports.
Maybe Claire should talk to them for an article.
Also if we are talking “Enhanced Interrogation” you will break or go crazy, its just a matter of time.
A couple things that may be useful – as @ usual – YMMV.
In the time between first encounter with LE and arrest – you’ll probably be operating on the basis of appearing helpful and innocent – thinking there will be a way to maneuver yourself out of the encounter. Many of the ‘helpful’ things you say may have inconsistencies or partial truths – and if these are discovered – they’ll be used as wedge points to get you to offer further information. The idea is to get, and keep, you talking. Hence the best of advice – STFU. Polite and measured at best.
Once you’re arrested – you’ll probably feel the ‘weight of the world upon you’ and you’ll be taking things very personally. This likely leads you to desperation and rash notions. At some later point you may realise that you’re just a tiny cog in an immense machine called ‘Criminal Justice’ and that this machine really doesn’t care anything about you and that it’s not personal (except to you – of course). This enormous machine (CJ system) requires regular sacrifices to continue to roll along – the system is very expensive and either with your time or your money – it wants your contribution. If you have no money – your time is still very valuable: labor, vendors, staff, infrastucture, etc. At any rate – for your own sake – say nothing until you receive legal counsel.
If you’re fortunate enough to be released after arraignment – best option is “own recognisance” – otherwise someone probably put up $ or property to free you until trial. (you did plead “not guilty” and request a jury trial – right?) Statements you may have made years prior can have a nasty way of cropping up when it comes to being released on your own recognisance – or even being bonded out.
As others have said earlier – public defenders generally won’t carry you well and far thru the system – but you’ll probably figure that out during your first meeting with one!
Claire – somewhat unrelated… Though fictional and somewhat contrived – there’s a book out there – available online – called “A Lodging for Wayfaring Men” which offers some ideas for Second Realm Strategies to aid people who are at risk. The book won’t be of any help to you if you need help today – but it does pose some ideas and perspectives that might be very useful in coming years.
On Point Tactical is a very good school for E&E, but be careful applying that knowledge. If you try to escape, or even if you successfully escape, you WILL be in deeper legal doo-doo than you ever were before! Use wisely.
I’m not sure if they’ve added “interrogation resistance” classes, it’s been a few years since I went there. But for the classes I took, they knew their stuff.
Immediate thought: Beware of the onslaught of incentives.
There are piles of ‘gifts’ available if you’ll just consent to what the ‘system’ wants from you. Getting out early/immediately, avoiding mandatory drivers license suspensions, lightened charges, and so on.
Its good stuff and looks all the better when you’re handcuffed to a bench and staring down a long 72 hour weekend before getting a chance at other avenues. But genies don’t go back into bottles, and you must have the mind to weigh the compounding consequences of everything you do, say, and especially consent to or sign.
I’ve never been actually locked up so I can’t totally speak from experience other than to say that there’s no reason to talk to cops.,
You know why people do it? They’re scared that by getting a lawyer and refusing to talk they’ll make it a big thing, and it’s really not neccecary because I’m obviously innocent, right? Screw that…it already became a big deal the second the cuffs went on.
A lot of people fall for the integrity trap…admitiing to something becuase you think they’ll go easier on you that way. It’s probably the most common way they get snitches…”we already know about your freinds, we just need you to tell us”.
Yeah…they do know but can’t do jack squat without you telling them…if they could get you on it it they’d already have you, so the next time you hear “we already know x but need you to tell us y” just smile and say “Well officer, that must really be frustrating!”
I would have to say that I totally agree with the rest of the group with regards to silence and public defenders.
While those folks acting against you have a huge organization with a lot of assets remember the burden of proof rests upon the state.
The defense is not required to present any evidence; it can merely challenge the credibility or legality of the prosecution’s case. The defense is not obligated to prove the defendant’s innocence; it needs to show only that the prosecution failed to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Finally, the defendant does not have to testify. But if the defendant testifies, he or she must face cross-examination. The Fifth Amendment states that the defendant has the right not to testify at a trial if to do so would implicate the defendant in a crime. Witnesses may also refuse to testify. For example, if a witness, while testifying, is asked a question to which the answer would reveal involvement in a crime, the witness may “take the Fifth.”
The prosecutor carries the double burden of the fact that the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty and that the prosecutor must prove the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Several defense strategies for creating doubt are
• Providing alternative explanations of evidence that links the defendant to the crime.
• Pointing out weaknesses in the prosecution’s case.
• Presenting an alibi.
• Attacking the credibility and character of prosecution’s witnesses.
But all the above is made that much harder if you don’t keep your mouth shut.
As y’all said. The only words you say are ‘I want MY lawyer’. Having a lawyer ON RETAINER is best. If you cant afford this, at least have the names of several local lawyers who you know handle criminal cases. In fact, get this info NOW. Interview a couple of local attys NOW. Yes, pay for a half hour appointment. If you ‘hit it off’ (ie they agree to talk to you, sound knowledgeable, and listen to you) ask what they would charge if you called them from the county lockup to come down there. Get that money, and, put it in escrow (this means you dont TOUCH it). Oh, and those ‘prepaid legal services’ are worse than the PD. Dont waste your $$ on them.
One thing many people fail to realize:
Yes, anything you say can and will be used against you…. BUT… the corollary is NOT true…. that anything you can can be used FOR you.
If your lawyer tries and bring up something you said while being arrested that would actually help prove your case, the other side will yell OBJECTION – HEARSAY faster than you can spit.
Fair? Of course not. That’s why they call it “the system.”
Plug Nickel Outfit, I just finished reading that book, but I must have an older, rough draft copy. Don’t remember where I found it, but the author then was listed as “anonymous.” I just did a search and found it here. http://www.paperbackswap.com/Lodging-Wayfaring-Men-Paul-Rosenberg/book/097960110X/
It is not an easy book to read or digest. I’ll need to go through it a few more times before I have it all sorted out. But it is well worth reading, especially if people have conflicts between free market ideas and their religion. But they’ll have to be very open minded about their religion!!
Oh, and go here if you want to get it through Claire’s Amazon… http://www.amazon.com/Lodging-Wayfaring-Men-Paul-Rosenberg/dp/097960110X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337361629&sr=1-1
I just downloaded the kindle version.
Part of “remain silent” should include NOT pleading. Do not plead guilty, do not plead not guilty. If someone tries to enter a plea for you, “Let the record show I object, I do not plead, and I stand mute.”
Remember, kids:
Cops get paid to bust people.
Prosecutors get paid to put people in jail.
And that’s it.
Notice the missing word? (Hint: it’s “guilty.”)
They get no bonuses for gigging the actual perpetrators of a crime, when indeed a real crime has taken place.
Nor do they, statistically, pay any penalty for busting or imprisoning the innocent. Or, as you might have noticed recently, executing them.
To all practical purposes, they’re predators, you’re prey.
Claire, come on down and I can fix that “not spent a night in jail” thing for you. Anything to help out a friend… 😉
I remain FASCINATED by comments in libertarian blogs, by supposed individualists, who nevertheless dive right into the Standard Statist Dogma of treating people in a group as fungible, interchangeable, and in no way unique than any other member of that group. Slap a label on ’em and off to the gibbet they go. No better than any group of Liberals, to my warped point of view, but watch ’em scream like stuck piggies if anyone tries the same with them.
Let’s take this step by step, presuming I can keep from banging my keyboard through the desk. Oh, and to establish credibility? I’m a former public defender, prosecutor, and policething, among my other sins. Onward:
1. Mama Liberty, you’re a dear dear lady and I treasure you highly, but you’re flat out wrong. Public defenders do not work for the police. They are either independently contracted attorneys or work for organizations or groups which are contracted to do the work. Public defenders ARE paid by the city/county/state/nation to do their work, but that just puts them in the same boat as any other group of lawyers. Some of them flat out suck, some of them don’t want to upset the gravy train, some of them see files and clients as “just another idiot thing to do,” and some of them are doing darned fine work for darned little money. Unfortunately, that “darned little money” part makes it quite likely that you’re more likely to get somebody in the first three categories and far less likely that your attorney is behind door number four. You get what you pay for, after all. I will point out in passing that I had about a 50% win rate at trial for my cases that went, which is amazing when you consider that a defense attorney (public or private) should NEVER win a trial. “Why” is outside the scope of this particular rant, just take it from somebody who’s been there, done that.
2. PNO, setting aside the inaccurate screed in your second paragraph, you’ve pretty much got it right. SD&STFU. “I want to talk to my lawyer” is about the ONLY thing you should say (read Ayoob’s books on the other time you should talk and what you should say – again, beyond the scope of the rant) to the police. Gerry Freakin’ Spence is not going to win a trial for you if you’ve blabbed about everything and consented to everything that the police want. And, apropos of Claire’s original cogent observations, I quickly lost track of the number of defendants I talked to who, when asked, “You didn’t really say that to the officer, did you????”, replied, “Why yes, yes I did.” That sort of crap moves you very quickly from “freedom” to “best negotiated deal possible.” Which brings us to…
3. As stated above, the police and prosecutors are NOT your friends, they are NOT your buddies, and they are NOT likely to be any nicer to you because you’ve confessed to everything. The majority of ’em don’t NEED to lie or nifong you, because people have a tendency (again, as Claire alluded to) to be – pardon my French – so effin’ butt-stupid when it comes to dealing with the intake portion of the criminal justice system. “But the officer was so NIIIIIIIIICE!!!!” was a FAR more common refrain than any allegations that the officer lied, in my experience. Do they lie? Yup. Do prosecutors nifong people? You bet. But it’s generally a minority of ’em because they don’t HAVE to. Hand ’em enough rope and people will hang themselves, and all the prosecution side has to do is stand back and watch.
4. Victor – except, again, for the unnecessary take – is correct. Police get paid to arrest, prosecutors get paid to jail. That’s their job description. And aside from the somewhat heavy emotional overtones, the “predator/prey” is pretty much spot on.
5. Mary Lou, you don’t need a lawyer on retainer – that’s just a waste of money. However, you *should* have a lawyer you’ve consulted with and are comfortable with. Spend a few bucks, if needed, talking to various criminal attorneys (and/or civil ones) to find ones with the right “fit” for you. Then take that money you’d otherwise spend on a retainer and squirrel it away against The Evil Day when you need it.
6. MJR – 100%! Wonderfully put!
7. Jacques, however, “fail.” There are any number of exceptions to the hearsay rule that would let me get what my client said at the time of the arrest in at trial. Back to Law 101 for you, stop scaring Claire’s readers with fallacies.
8. Winston – nicely done! Go sit next to MJR.
9. Matt, head of the class for you as well!
10. ILTim – not so much.
In closing (a lawyer making a closing statement, quelle surprise):
STFU! Avoid public defenders when you can. STFU! Nobody in the system is your friend, unless you’re paying for your own attorney – though the judge should be a neutral third party (which is not to say that there aren’t judges who are just as bad [on both sides of the issue, ask any prosecutor]). STFU!!!! Get ready for a nasty ride, but recognize that the only way to make it do-able is to not be talking.
Oh, and by the way, did I mention….STFU!!!!!!!
Hobbit…
“Public defenders ARE paid by the city/county/state/nation to do their work, but that just puts them in the same boat as any other group of lawyers. ”
The “public defenders” sure don’t work for the “client,” and that’s the only thing that counts. Hoping you get a “good one” is right up there with wishing on a falling star.
And when the cops are done confiscating everything you own and freezing your bank accounts, you don’t have a dime to hire your own lawyer anyway – even if you did to start with. Nice rock and hard place.
Yes, keep quiet. Maybe just as important is to avoid the whole thing as much as possible. Which takes us back to the admonition about being an “activist.” Better know the risks and be willing to accept the consequences.
I have this recurring dream. I’m standing in a court and the judge has just threatened to charge me with “contempt of court.” I look him right in the eye and tell him there are no words sufficient to express my contempt for that court. Then I wake up….
“I remain FASCINATED by comments in libertarian blogs, by supposed individualists, who nevertheless dive right into the Standard Statist Dogma of treating people in a group as fungible, interchangeable, and in no way unique than any other member of that group.”
It’s the only wise thing to do when dealing with what’s left of the the “legal system”. I remain fascinated with your “hint” that there are some good Cop/DA/Judges out there we can put our faith in? By your own words no one’s our friend in the legal system. Maybe you could clarify exactly what you mean?
Law Hobbit – I’m not clear on which part of my screed is inaccurate. I’m guessing you mean my characterisation of the criminal justice system as an impersonal machine. I assume we’re not counting my introductory sentence as a paragraph.
MamaLiberty – my copy of “A Lodging for Wayfaring Men” is also credited to Anonymous. I found it somewhere online in PDF – can’t recall where or when. I just found some value in the general storyline and didn’t get too caught up in some of the philosophy presented in it. In fact – I skipped most of the appendices at the end as they really weren’t doing too much for me!
Another book that touches on gaming the system is “Unintended Consequences” – which was a much more entertaining read. In both books though – the protagonists having a good deal of money certainly was helpful.
ML – I too have similar nightmares on those rare occasions that I’ve been summoned for jury duty.
Me, I talk a lot. To cops, too, but never about what they want me to. I tell jokes, ask sports affiliations, about where they got that accent, what branch of military served but ALWAYS tell them “I won’t answer that”. When they say “You HAVE to.”, I tell them that the right of free speech includes the right to NOT speak and I change the subject. If asked my birth date, I say that “I was there but not of competence to testify about it. Anything I might say about it constitutes heresay and therefor considered a lie. Are you trying to entrap me into lying to a government official? Martha Stewart went to jail for just that.” Same thing for “Where do you live?. I reply to that with “In my body” and make them chase that dog around the tree.
Mama Liberty – “paid by the city/county/state/nation” is not the same as “works for the cops.” They are admittedly in the classic lawyer trap of “working for X but paid by Y,” but they knew that job was dangerous when they took it. That said, if you’ve got hard evidence of an attorney not working for his client, you should be screaming to the local Bar association – they give lawyers long and unpaid vacations from the practice of law for stuff like that. Agreed on the “rock and a hard place,” though, but that’s why I’m against any sort of civil forfeiture laws as simply being another form of state theft – ESPECIALLY when the confiscation is not attached to any sort of criminal trial/conviction.
And a client is under no obligation to take any sort of deal that the public defender may work out with the prosecutor. He can say “hell no!” and take it to trial. Bearing in mind, though, that whatever his other flaws an attorney working in the system can have a better read on judges, juries, and witnesses and taking a plea – rather than a trial – is often the sad result.
PNO: I was referring to your bit about the Criminal Justice system needing “regular sacrifices.” The rest of the paragraph is actually fairly reasonable and I should not have implied that the whole paragraph was a “screed.” My apologies.
EN: Unless you’ve got experience with the same police, DAs, and judges I do, your across-the-board smear is exactly what I’m complaining about. Are there bad apples out there? Yup. Am I going to do the Liberal thing and thereby suggest that they’re ALL bad? Nope.
The subtext of my message is, make sure that YOU are in control of the dialog. They will let you talk because they think you might reveal something. Make sure you don’t by never talking about yourself OR YOUR FRIENDS. Imitate Seinfeld, maybe. Sing songs. Drive them crazy, waste their time. If you are a Christian (I am), preach to them the gospel of peace and forgiveness. THAT got me thrown OUT of jail in Anderson, SC one time with all the tickets torn up, my car filled with gas and brought to the jailhouse door. Fear is a tool of the Devil and peace a gift of God. There are worse things than jail. The worst is living with yourself after compromising your principles. Are they “all bad”? Yes, they are because ALL have compromised their principles. Don’t be like “them”.
lawhobbit (the infamous one from Oregon) – thanks for the clarification. I probably did indulge in a bit of hyperbole there. Sometimes it just seems that regular sacrifices are what keeps the machine rolling along!