Just got this from a young freedomista, JS, who sometimes comments here.
His was just a modest encounter with one small, everyday example of Authoritah (Authoritah of the “it’s illegal because I say so” variety.) But JS handled it with guts. On days when it feels exhausting pushing against ever-encroaching tyrannies, large and small, it’s hugely encouraging to know spirited young guys like this are coming up in the world.
Just got pulled over by the state police, … for … get this … yelling out of my window.
They had a vehicle pulled over. Two patrol cars and large U-Haul were in the turning lane that I needed and the stream of cars from the other direction were coming into it. When I was able to turn, I said out of my window, “This is dangerous.”
One of the officers shouted “WHAT?”, scrambled to his car and raced after me. When I asked what law I had broken, he could not say … but quickly pointed to my temp registration being in the wrong spot.
I asked many times what law I had broken. I asked, “Yelling out of the window is breaking the law?” He said it was [illegal] if there were officers present. Unbelievable.
Kept me there for 20 minutes. Kept saying he wasn’t upset and that I was the one making a big deal out of it. Let me tell you, this officer stomped toward the truck very angry. I told him he was abusing his power and that I didn’t deserve to be treated with intimidation. He proceeded to lecture me on the proper way to address a policeman for my future concerns. What a guy. Sergent Bockman of the Colorado State Patrol.
Good for you, JS…..
After growing up and spending *more years than I want to admit to* in Chicago I thought I had a pretty good understanding of corruption….until I moved to CO; they have even creepier cops (as well as judges) there, especially up in the mountains…..Haven’t lived there in a while, but it sounds like they still don’t have any recognizable logic or common sense…..
Trust me when I say: you don’t want to get mixed up in their system…..I learned real quick how to become a ghost when living there….and I love everything else about CO and plan on going back there again someday – as soon as I can figure out how to do that and stay under/off the radar……
I’m assuming you got thru that without any further ridiculousness to have to deal with(?)…..If so, you are luckier than you realize…..
When I lived in Colorado- in a “remote area”- it was “common knowledge” that the state police assigned to the remote areas were the ones who had gotten in trouble for raping and abusing people in the more “civilized” regions of the state. I don’t know that they were actually worse, but I think our tolerance for cops was a lot lower than the urban areas, so maybe they just seemed worse to us.
And, JS, you should know that “illegal” means “anything a cop, bureaucrat, or puppetician doesn’t like”.
Thank you naturegirl, … I appreciate your warnings and will my best to remain a ghost as well. I’d done well up until then. I just reacted to the dangerous situation at hand instantly and paid for it. He used the threat of violence and jail to pull me over because he didn’t like my opinion that they were being unsafe.
When he pulled me over, he asked very loudly what I had said. I didn’t have to say anything, but I was worked up and did. I told him I said “This is dangerous.” He then told me they have no control over where vehicles pull over. I then asked him what that had to do with pulling me over and round and round we went. Asked him why he’s making such a big deal out of the way I expressed myself. He said he wasn’t, it was me. I then told him I didn’t have the power to detain anyone if I disagreed with them. He was yelling, I was yelling. It was pretty ridiculous. It’s sad that you’re right that I was probably “lucky” that nothing more came out of it.
Kent, that’s exactly what happened. He didn’t like what I had to say, so he made my actions illegal if only in his own mind. I’m learning. I can see I’m going to struggle with this. I don’t do well with authority for authority’s sake and it drives me crazy being submissive. But I realize doing my best to remain out of view will serve my family and I the best in the long run.
Trying to calm down, but don’t want to lose my bad attitude 🙂
I haven’t(so far)had any real trouble with anyone in Authoritah,but this is something I’ve heard from others, and I wonder if it’s universal. The cop most likely to have an attitude is one just out of police academy-I’ve heard this more than once, from people I know and trust. Opinions?
I just assume they’re all bad and avoid them. When I did talk to them a decade or so ago, I never found one who could think as I understand the term.
Here is an experience I had with someone in the police academy: http://blog.kentforliberty.com/2006/10/wanna-be-enforcers.html
“Trying to calm down, but don’t want to lose my bad attitude.”
Quote of the week.
I don’t think most would consider it being submissive to avoid confrontations with Authoritah when ever possible. It’s like trying to avoid potholes, skunks, rabid dogs etc. It’s easier than having to fight through every encounter. The deck is generally stacked in favor of the cops and the establishment in every enounter, so it is best to avoid. If avoidance is not possible, than witnesses are nice, phones, recorders, ipods that record etc. Keeping a cool head and respondin logically and politely throws them off their game too.
Good for you, JS. When every 5th car is yelling at the tax-collector endangering our lives, they won’t be able to race down the road after all of us. Until then, don’t think of this as the normal response other officers will have in similiar encounters. You happened across one of the “good” only-ones, [“good” meaning you were only treated very unprofessionally.]
There is no law against yelling at police. But, next time make sure your words are clearly understood — otherwise they will investigate further to make sure the yelling didn’t include a threat. That is IF it is one of the “good” only-ones you yell at, otherwise…
I agree with Kevin, that is the quote of the week….and I also don’t think that avoiding is being submissive, it’s a matter of picking the battles wisely and as mentioned, documenting every part of it…..
Geeze, with that title I thought you had found a cop who doesn’t frequent the donut shop. I’m disappointed.
Ok, I just read about the drone sent to bust a family whole stole some cows, now I’ve heard it all !
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/police-use-military-drones-to-arrest-us-citizens/9468?tag=mantle_skin;content
Who not whole, LOL….being astounded screws up my spelling…..
The Colorado State police (revenue department) is the ONLY agency that has ever written me (a retired LEO) a “chickenshit” ticket. They will write their own mother a citation for a cracked tail light lens.
I think it is important to bring a few points I picked up over the years. First, I share your frustrations and used to do the yelling out the window. Got me no where but delayed 30 minutes at the time. What did work in situations like this is point out the danger and, even more effective, the potential liability to the commander with a copy to mayor or state rep or somebody looking for a vote. Turn it from them having the power to detain to you having the power to effect there budget (ie job).
Second, most cops fall under the old paradigm of young dog and old dog. You know, the young dog barks and howls at the wind but when the old dog barks, now there is an issue. Same thing with cops, young cops are like young dogs and other young people… easily excitable and emboldened. The older cops are officers that are patient and undertand true good vs bad.
To update: I did receive a call from the officer’s supervisor upon my complaint a few days after. I explained the situation in detail and was told I’d receive a letter from the next supervisor up the chain with “his ruling” of the encounter. I thought the officer’s supervisor was fair while listening to my side. She did take some jabs like asking me if yelling out of my window was how I normally expressed frustration, but other than that, she listened and took notes on what I had to say.
I’m happy to report the letter states the officer was in error and the traffic stop was “not proper” and “will be handled as described in CSP Policy.”
Small, moral victory I suppose. Not that I believe anything will change, but it’s nice to see someone at the CSP agrees the traffic stop was not warranted.
JS … Great that you followed up. Amazing that they took you seriously. Wonder what “CSP policy” means in this case?