This morning I started a thread in the public portion of Claire’s Cabal about civil war; will we or won’t we?
The thread starter is a New Yorker article, silly with the standard urban-left assumptions that somehow everything began with Obama and might end with Trump. But within it are a number of astute (or at least thought-provoking) quotes from smarter people. And naturally Cabalistas have added their own usual thought-provoking observations. Go read. Comment over there if you can.
There will probably never be “civil war” in the U.S. — just as there was no civil war way back when, no matter what they call that nasty business in the mid-nineteenth century. But unlike that war, whatever happens next isn’t going to be two well-defined sides with formal armies.
I also don’t believe there will be a “race war” as so many on the right have long predicted. There will be something more like an identity war, whose opening skirmishes have already begun.
I’m with Ace of Spades, who says all identity politics are toxic and obnoxious. White, black, LGBT, whatever; it’s all us against them and them against us, pulling some finite (but ever-growing) taffy of political power. No good can come of it. Until recently, though, the only white guys trying to use identity politics were a bunch of neo-Nazi and Christian Identity losers.
Now we’ve got antifa thugs — not to mention sniffy mainstream journalists and commentators — trying to make millions more people feel guilty merely for having white skin. Or being born male, Or being from the south (always a problem at least since the 1960s, but growing worse). These politically privileged asshats basically demand that millions of people hate themselves merely for existing.
And they demand it at a time the whole white, working-class population is already suffering economic hardship and being pushed further down the social status ladder.
Speak of no good coming of that. Ugh.
But the thing is, no matter how much political power, journalistic clout, or worked-up moral outrage your identity group imagines it’s entitled to, you don’t mess with millions of guys (and women, but mostly guys) of Irish, Scots-Irish, or Saxon heritage. Rather, you mess with them at your own peril. Celts, especially (those Irish and Scots-Irish) don’t always win their wars. On the contrary, Celts are among history’s perpetual war-losers (often losing to those Saxons). But Celts also don’t quit. They never, ever quit. And they are fierce as the demons of hell when pushed to the wall. Imagine you’ve defeated them? They’ll nurse a grudge so deep you might not see it for generations … then they’ll turn and get you.
Yeah, no good can ever come of identity politics. I don’t care whose identity and whose politics you’re talking about. White power, black power, gay power, whatever-group power; it’s all nonsense. I wish it would all stop. I know it’s not going to. It’s a game with too big a political prize for the winners. (Never mind that in the end, nobody really wins except the politicians who can scrape the biggest riches off the top, then flee for some safe haven when the entire Ponzi scheme of power collapses.)
I haven’t taken the prospect of “civil war” terribly seriously until now. We’re more likely to see something that doesn’t resemble traditional war at all. But the anti-fascist fascists who now imagine they can punish millions for the crime of being Caucasian and/or male are going to get one hell of a big shock.
I absolutely despise identity politics and it’s tearing our culture apart, as it’s designed to do.
I would prefer to keep a low profile, and remain mostly aloof, as I have for nearly 50 years since 05/04/70. But I don’t see me being able to do that very well with the infestation of identity politics into our society. And that means I may need to fight, because I damned well won’t be someone’s cooperative victim.
(The last time I was in a fight I almost didn’t know when to stop – I get really outraged with anyone who forces me into that situation, and want to beat them so badly that they’ll never want to be near me again.)
The Finnish have a word for that Celtic ‘don’t quit’ thing. It’s “Sisu”. My only Finn friend tells me it doesn’t translate directly, but that it means something like ‘never, ever, Ever, EVER stop before you succeed or die’. When I was 20-couple years old, with a full time factory job, full time and more classes, and a wife with two babies, I wore that word embroidered on my jacket. It got me thru all of that, because as long as I could put one foot forward I didn’t stop doing what had to be done.
It’s a good word to know. And I now think I may need to remember it in the near future. Sisu, y’all!
Aye, lass… the Scots and their kin do not ever quit. They may blend in for a time, but some of the feuds have lasted for many centuries. I doubt you’ll ever meet a traditional Scot who has anything but disdain for the English.
Of course that is true of a number of other ethnic people…
Civil war? Nah… Eventually the non-voluntary “government” won’t be able to assume any legitimate authority, and so won’t have any control at all. It may well get very messy in the meantime.
Sisu.
Švejkovina.
Samizdat.
A new 3S protocol for these very interesting times. Fascists and Communists are fighting, and killing, in the streets. Time to show your friends what you’re made of.
Okay, had to look up that second one. But yeah, that’s a pretty good 3S protocol, E. Garrett Perry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Soldier_%C5%A0vejk
I need to hunt down my copy of that book …
Whatever you call it, it won’t be civil once the knives come out. The progressives who keep pushing have never seen a war, and have no idea what it looks, sounds, feels, tastes, and smells like.
Also see “berserk.”
Noun: 1.A crazed Norse warrior who fought in a frenzy; a berserker.
Adjective: 1. Injuriously, maniacally, or furiously violent or out of control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker
Chaos. Everybody fighting everyone else, nobody will know who to trust, and gov at any level will not know how to control except by knocking heads together. Fragmentation, indeed.
Are you talkin bout these guys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KONpJjiHWXo
There are more liberal gun owners than you’re aware of, for the same reason that there are closeted Christian fundamentalists.
Claire, if you would like a new copy of either of the English translations pleaae let me know. There’s a bookstore about two minute’s walk up the street.
After reading the cabal conversation, and here, I find myself mostly thinking along the lines of other respondents, who sound more generally in agreement than not. And I found that Bonhoeffer quotation especially relevant, somehow.
Yep, no civil war’s a-coming, just more of the same in the cities. But across the world for decades and centuries, humanity has absorbed an indoctrination in and an accommodation with the inevitable rightness of guv. Doesn’t really matter if such -stupid- humans aspire to rule or to become part of the well-ordered mass of contented subjects. Either orientation serves to maintain respect for Authority and other-directed life.
So I’m not entirely confident that we can look forward to only big city bonfires followed by general disintegration while the independent minded establish new working relationships in the countryside. While I really don’t think the country can be roused to race war of any kind, I’m fairly worried that one more 9/11-like event is about all it would take to let guv bring those various standing armies living among us fully into view. And I’m afraid the stupids will adapt to that without demur.
It’s becoming easier for me to see no place to hide or run situations developing for us all as the federal noose tightens. Or in another variation on that future, it wouldn’t really matter if the country broke into several sections–so long as most of us are so much inclined to try the same damn (guv) thing again.
So given the above, why do I remain so optimistic? I seem to cycle between anticipation of worse yet coming soon ..and a sense that what we see around us could continue about as-is even for decades yet. But mainly (only an intuition) I think that even our near future might look vastly different than any of our current speculations. And as for a bright outlook, I do place some stock in the idea that if we can imagine it we can bring it into being.
–Might add that I would have tried to join the cabal by now, but just don’t see myself writing enough to justify the free membership. Certainly has improved my outlook, though, over these last three or four or five decades to be gradually discovering that I wasn’t an “only one.”
to let guv bring those various standing armies living among us fully into view.
I see that point, but:
Total active U.S. military is less than 1.5 million personnel. Something less than half a million are ground combat arms soldiers who could professionally hold terrain/guard installations/take on insurgents.
There are 800,000 or so reserves and national guard, with a like percentage of combat arms. But they are civilians most of the time, so which side would they be on?
Last time I checked there was a bit under one million sworn law enforcement officers. At least half are local or county LEOs.
So a total, if everything went right for government, of 3.3 million in that “standing army.” Factor in that while a majority of Federal law enforcement probably voted Obama, the military went for Trump. I think if there’s a takeover attempt, it will most likely be right-wing.
So realistically we’re looking at half a million military plus half a million LEO, for one million effectives.
There are 16+ million people licensed to carry. In Infantry School, those odds are considered well-past suicidal.
There are more liberal gun owners than you’re aware of…
Well, I’m aware of a bunch of them. There have always been lots of blue-collar, union-member deer hunters, etc. Now, with Trump as president, some liberals are rethinking their “nobody needs guns to overthrow the government” philosophy. (Funny, that.)
I wonder how many liberal gun owners are more classical liberal than they are progressive? SJWs are certainly getting the left wing boatloads of negative press.
And let’s not forget that there is an unknown number of those “…one million effectives” who are OathKeepers and would side with citizens against any attempted take-over by any government, elected or not. And they will know the procedures and tactics the others will follow, as well as having equivalent arms.
And then there is also the fact that they and their families live ‘amongst the enemy’ if they are on the ‘take-over’ side. That would not be a good thing for them, as they’d have to choose between duty and protecting their families and homes. It’s not like we don’t any of us know what our neighbors do for a living.
So I think that number of potential ‘effectives’ is getting much smaller now.
I also think that a ‘conservative’ would be more likely to understand that stuff. Lefties seem to think that all they have to do is get everybody fighting and then ‘declare a state of emergency’ or something like that – as if we couldn’t suddenly realize what was happening and stop fighting to band together. In spite of all the racism Obama and Holder and Clinton stirred up, I know my black friends all consider themselves to be Americans first, as do the couple of Asian friends I have. My Jewish friends do, and so do my two immigrant exes and their families.
As a result, I don’t really expect any effective attempt at taking control of the nation, though I do anticipate the lefties to try. They’ve been infiltrating since the 40’s to do this, so they aren’t really going to just lose interest and plant roses. So I expect they will at some point try, and they will attack anybody ‘not them’ (genocide always follows a revolution), so it may get pretty ugly for a time but they will fail. I for one am fully prepared to meet ugly with UuuGuLY. I just don’t want to be the one who goes there willingly.